Jump to content
Ultimate Subaru Message Board
obk25xt

Finished... 5 lug swap... Thank you

Recommended Posts

I am right in the middle of doing a 5 lug swap onto my loyale wagon.

I have searched and re-searched many many times before starting this so as to not run into any surprises/speed bumps along the way.

 

Everything I am using is xt6 stuff other than the front struts, they are wrx.

 

The drivetrain on the loyale is 100% stock, ea82/single range 4wd, 5mt.

 

The problem I am having is axles, unless I totally misunderstood what I read, what I need (and bought) are 93-94 impreza FWD 5mt axles. They are too long. Based on rough measurements it seems like about 1.5-2" too long. Other than length everything else is fine, outer spindle, inner doj etc.

 

Am I supposed to make a hybrid axle using the ea82 axle shaft and the impreza outer? Did I read something totally wrong? I'm not trying to ask a redundant question, I thought I had done enough research to get this done efficiently but it seems I haven't. Please help, and thanks to all who will.

 

Spencer

Edited by obk25xt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

EJ axles won't work in XT6 hubs, you'll need EJ hubs or "make an axle", if that's even possible.

 

i've heard of "axles too long before" in a couple threads before too. someone will probably know more, i can't recall why/what happened.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have some axles that were part of a 5 lug xt6 swap on an 89 rx, i can get you a dimension if you like. Seems to me a guy would want xt6 axles if you have a 25 spline trans or change doj to suit your axle stubs. makes sense to me but I could be wrong, I havnt done my own swap yet so dont quote me on this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
EJ axles won't work in XT6 hubs, you'll need EJ hubs or "make an axle", if that's even possible.

 

Really? Why is that Gary? I thought the EJ and XT6 outer's were virtually identical. But I haven't closely inspected them side-by-side.

 

GD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
EJ axles won't work in XT6 hubs, you'll need EJ hubs or "make an axle", if that's even possible.

 

i've heard of "axles too long before" in a couple threads before too. someone will probably know more, i can't recall why/what happened.

 

actually, it's not the hub that's the issue, it's the inner wheel bearing seal.

 

I have some axles that were part of a 5 lug xt6 swap on an 89 rx' date=' i can get you a dimension if you like. Seems to me a guy would want xt6 axles if you have a 25 spline trans or change doj to suit your axle stubs. makes sense to me but I could be wrong, I havnt done my own swap yet so dont quote me on this.[/quote']

 

He has 23-spline stubs. No XT6 came with 23-spline stubs.

 

You *are* useing the XT6 front lower control arms right? That's what gives the added length needed to use the longer axles....

 

GD

 

negative. XT6 and EA82 control arms are the same length, just different ball joint hole.

 

 

 

 

EJ axles are longer than XT6, but the inner DOJ should be able to soak up the extra length. I ran '92 Legacy front axles (along with the knuckles and hubs....) on a number of EA/ER cars.

 

you have 2 options. Get your hands on different seals so you can use the EJ axles in the ER hubs. I did some research, and found a part number that will work with this combo:

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showpost.php?p=836218&postcount=20

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showpost.php?p=840456&postcount=23

if you don't feel like reading my long, rambling posts....you're looking for Timken #225678

 

or, make a hybrid axle. using 23-spline inner joints on XT6 shafts. from the parts I have laying around, it looks like EA82 front inner joints will slip right onto XT6 shafts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

EJ axles are longer than XT6, but the inner DOJ should be able to soak up the extra length. I ran '92 Legacy front axles (along with the knuckles and hubs....) on a number of EA/ER cars.

 

Do you know if the legacy axles are shorter than the impreza axles? Also did they make a 23 spline doj legacy axle like the impreza?

 

you have 2 options. Get your hands on different seals so you can use the EJ axles in the ER hubs. I did some research, and found a part number that will work with this combo:

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showpost.php?p=836218&postcount=20

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showpost.php?p=840456&postcount=23

if you don't feel like reading my long, rambling posts....you're looking for Timken #225678

 

Cool, Thanks! I will try this afternoon/evening. I don't wanna neysay or anything, but it looks like changing the seal will gain me another .25" or .5" of engagement into the outer hub, i'm not sure that will be enough. When I was putting it all together last night, the doj was on the tranny, and outer cv was through the hub (as far as it would go, only looked like it could come through another .25" or so). To get the lower strut bolts into the knuckle I still had to push the knuckle in about another 1". This was with the ball joint in the hole. Then the suspension was still gonna have to compress another couple inches or so. It was just looking very unlikely that everything was going to work. Regardless, I will buy the other seal and try.

 

 

or, make a hybrid axle. using 23-spline inner joints on XT6 shafts. from the parts I have laying around, it looks like EA82 front inner joints will slip right onto XT6 shafts.

 

Ok, I've never tore into axles... yet.... Are the xt6 axles shorter than the impreza ones? Because I don't have any and would have to buy some to start messing around wit hybrids. I was looking at them lastnight (axles), ea82 side by side with impreza, made new (not rebuilt) by the same aftermarket manufacturer (wohn). They have the same size axle shaft itself, but I don't know about spline count going into the cv. What i was thinking I'd have to do is pull the cv end off the impreza axle and marry it to the ea82 axle. I see your talking about changing the doj end, can I just change the cv end instead?

 

I will search about making axles before asking any questions about it. I'm not looking forward to tearing apart brand new axles and potentially ruining a good product and making it non-returnable, also I'll have to buy a banding tool to re-secure the boots.

 

Thanks for the replies!

 

Spencer

Edited by obk25xt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Do you know if the legacy axles are shorter than the impreza axles? Also did they make a 23 spline doj legacy axle like the impreza?

 

 

 

Cool, Thanks! I will try this afternoon/evening. I don't wanna neysay or anything, but it looks like chaging the seal will gain me another .25" or .5" of engagement into the outer hub, i'm not sure the that will be enough. When I was putting it all together last night, the doj was on the tranny, and outer cv was through the hub (as far as it would go, only looked like it could come through another .25" or so). To get the lower strut bolts into the knuckle I still had to push the knuckle in about another 1". This was with the ball joint in the hole. Then the suspension was still gonna have to compress another couple inches or so. It was just looking very unlikely that everything was going to work. Regardless, I will buy the other seal and try.

 

 

 

 

Ok, I've never tore into axles... yet.... Are the xt6 axles shorter than the impreza ones? Because I don't have any and would have to buy some to start messing around wit hybrids. I was looking at them lastnight (axles), ea82 side by side with impreza, made new (not rebuilt) by the same aftermarket manufacturer (wohn). They have the same size axle shaft itself, but I don't know about spline count going into the cv. What i was thinking I'd have to do is pull the cv end off the impreza axle and marry it to the ea82 axle. I see your talking about changing the doj end, can I just change the cv end instead?

 

I will search about making axles before asking any questions about it. I'm not looking forward to tearing apart brand new axles and potentially ruining a good product and making it non-returnable, also I'll have to buy a banding tool to re-secure the boots.

 

Thanks for the replies!

 

Spencer

 

Youll find a thread by numbchux on axles in the usrm, good info with pics.

Edited by T'subaru

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Do you know if the legacy axles are shorter than the impreza axles? Also did they make a 23 spline doj legacy axle like the impreza?
no and no.

 

i mean there might be some minute variance in length but legacy, impreza, forester, OBW, WRX..etc axles are all interchangeable all day long so if there's a difference it's small.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Youll find a thread by numbchux on axles in the usrm' date=' good info with pics.[/quote']

 

I looked for it but came up with nothing.... I think Gary answered it for me anyhow, thanks though!

 

no and no.

 

i mean there might be some minute variance in length but legacy, impreza, forester, OBW, WRX..etc axles are all interchangeable all day long so if there's a difference it's small.

 

Thanks Gary, I guess my next step is to try the different seal that numbchux posted. There are none available locally, but I can have one on monday. I think what I'll do is remove the seal, try and fit everything together, and go back and install the correct seal if/when I overcome whatever is holding me back. This is frustrating! I know I'm not pioneering anything here and my situation is not unique! I thought I had all the info I needed to get this done and now my car is gonna be sittin on jackstands untill I get it all figured out.

 

Thanks to all who are helping here. Any info is helpful.

 

Spencer

Edited by obk25xt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^^^ Awesome! Thank you.

 

Now, does the outer (cv end) come apart similar to the doj end? Geez I feel like such a noob asking all these questions......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was an axle newb until reading "chux" writeup, in my case the cv was not servicable on the xt6, as far as i could see and the fsm said the same thing, if your thinking boots boot the cv first then the doj. As far as regreasing I used alot of brake clean and patience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not thinking boots, thinking about hybrid axles....

So I guess what I'm going to attempt is xt6 axle with ea82 doj. Soooo, I'm assuming here, but, the xt6 axles are shorter than the impreza ones (?), only with a 25 spline doj. Meaning, as stated earlier, I can get xt6 axles and swap 23 spline doj's onto them and everything should fit...... Right?

 

Grrrrr, no local parts stores have xt6 axles, soonest I can get em' is monday, which will kick off my work week, which will interfere with working on my car, which means jackstands and driving the outback till I can get back to the swap..... Frustrating...... :mad:

 

Spencer

Edited by obk25xt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yea, those seals weren't exactly off the shelf either.

 

 

CVs weren't designed to be easily serviceable like DOJs, but I've heard of the "pipe trick" to get them apart.....

 

 

I keep meaning to grab a pipe of the right diameter, and try it out.

 

 

 

I just took a look at a couple knuckles in the basement. looks like the EJ knuckle pushes the bearing/hub out about .25" further than the ER relative the balljoint and strut mounts. so that would explain the length issue using EJ axles with ER knuckles.

Edited by Numbchux

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So like... why not just get some EJ hubs/knuckles and run the ER brakes on them?

 

Beats taking apart perfectly good axles... and they'll fit better in your WRX struts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
run the ER brakes on them?

 

not really an option. mounting hole spacing between knuckle and caliper bracket are different, as is rotor hat offset.

 

Although ER calipers can be mounted to turbo-legacy caliper brackets with the t-leg rotors. then you retain the front ebrake, although I'd rather give up the ebrake for the twin-piston t-leg calipers.

 

 

other than that, it's a good suggestion. I would recommend the EJ knuckles for brake options. Also, the EJ knuckles move the steering pivot point a bit inboard, which helps the geometry quite a bit (but, requires EA81 rod ends in order to retain realistic toe settings)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do have a perfectly good 91 legacy wagon w/ 5mt (for swap parts).... The plan is to swap the ej/awd into the ea82 wagon (I know this means going back to 25 spline doj's). I was just doin this swap stuff one thing at a time. I wanted to keep the e-brake setup on the front (for simplicity), wasn't planning on tearing into the legacy until I was ready to start messing with the wiring. It sounds like I may be better off taking the knuckles/calipers off the legacy as far as having a little more room for axles, but I don't like the idea of not having a parking brake, and don't want to setup for rear e-brake right now (don't have the 200sx calipers etc.).

 

Also, the research I did today showed very little difference in axle length between the xt6/impreza. Unless the info I got is inaccurate there is only 5/16" difference, the impreza being longer. These measurements came from a baxter auto parts website, they are supposed to be compressed measurements.

 

26 5/8 xt6

26 15/16 impreza

 

I'm kinda in subaru swap limbo right now. I should have xt6 axles here on monday, along with the different seals mentioned earlier by numbchux (which I won't need if I use the xt6 axles in the xt6 knuckles). I returned the impreza axles, before finding out the minor difference in axle length (depending on accuracy of source). I'm not against using the EJ stuff instead of the ER stuff, although I would like to keep a simple parking brake.

 

Bottom line is...... I want my car back!! It seems like this shouldn't be such a pita, I am very mechanical and this has me somewhat confused, because so many people have done this before me and I am using others experience for my info.

 

My frustration mostly lies in this.

I bought BRAND NEW:

Rotors-f/r

Pads-f/r

Ball joints

 

I inspected the front wheel bearings, everything looks/feels great.

 

Just had nearly new potenzas mounted on 16" wrx alloys painted gloss black

 

I recently installed NEW rear wheel bearings in xt6 rear control arms and am running xt6 sways front and rear. Also have skunk2 coilover sleeves on the stock shocks/struts (the front sleeves won't fit over the wrx struts so that may be a ride height issue). The car handles phenomenal even with the 185-70-13's, I really want to have the larger brakes/tires. I can only imagine!!

 

I WILL get this finished, may take me longer than I'd hoped, but will get done.

 

Again, many thanks to those who are offering advice on this.

 

Spencer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just another bit of info from a different website.....

 

Impreza:

 

L NEW CV COMPL ASSY

FRONT - IB SPLINE COUNT: 23 - OB SPLINE COUNT: 27 - OVERALL LENGTH (MM): 683 - INBOARD ID: FEMALE - BASE MODEL - L - LS

 

XT6:

 

L NEW CV COMPL ASSY

FRONT - IB SPLINE COUNT: 25 - OB SPLINE COUNT: 27 - OVERALL LENGTH (MM): 676 - INBOARD ID: MALE - XT6

 

According to these dimensions the difference is 7mm.

 

I ordered a set of EMPI's for 53.95 each, free shipping. Sweet Deal!

 

Spencer

Edited by obk25xt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bigger pain that I originally thought, but is worth it. I think some of the difficulty is in using the ER knuckles as opposed to the EJ knuckles, There are some minor differences that make complications.

 

Made hybrid axles, used nissan sentra front struts, got er' handled....

 

Planning on making a post of my "recipe" if anyone is interested.

 

IMG_1807.jpg

 

IMG_1808.jpg

Edited by obk25xt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
so nissan front struts are a dirrect fit on xt6 knuckles?

 

No, but close. I used an end grinder and open the upper hole slightly, the difference in bolt centers was 1/8" if I remember right. Also I used 1 washer per bolt as shimstock between the strut/knuckle at the mounting point. Sounds a little more hokey than it really is, i took some photos, I'll get them up here soon.

 

just noticed that walgreens is the one a few blocks from my house

 

Heil ya man! Muchas FTW!! :banana: I live in east county and love it up there, Venersberg to be exact. on a 100+ acre tree farm with a buncha trails!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×