Bluestone Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) A front wheel bearing on my 2000 Sube is getting noisy and needs to be replaced. The going rate here in the East Bay , Northern California area for wb replacement is $500(it's a 4 hour job at $100 per hour). The bearing noise is currently not loud. At what point does the bearing noise indicate that it demands attention? Edited January 20, 2011 by Bluestone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 first off how many miles on the bearing grinder? theyvusually get noisy sometime after 165k miles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluestone Posted January 20, 2011 Author Share Posted January 20, 2011 first off how many miles on the bearing grinder? theyvusually get noisy sometime after 165k miles 165k miles? Hah! My Sube is pretty low mileage with just 64k miles on it. The bearing in question (LF) was replaced under warranty at 15k miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcspeer Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) If you are sure it is the bearing it would be best to change it now before it destroys the hub. You can save some money by buying the complete spindle from junk yard for around 35.00 to 50.00 dollars. If you chose not to change it yourself you should be able to have it done for around one hr. labor. The best way to check it is to jack it up and spin the wheel by hand while holding the coil spring. You will be able to feel the vibaration of a bad bearing in the spring. This advice was posted here many years ago by another poster and I have found it to be very good for checking bearing. Edited January 20, 2011 by tcspeer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Noise is the part demanding attention. Worst case scenerio, the wheel can come off. That what the job books for. They go bad early like this if the car has ever encountered a curb or if the tech that installed the bearing didnt do it right, or if the hub wasn't inspected for distortion while it was apart previously. As noted, you can replace the spindle but most shops will want to align the car after this method which is usually another 1.5H labor so you will have a used bearing and at least 2.5 hours labor into the job anyway, not to mention the cost of the used spindle which is probably just as expensive if not more expensive than a wheel bearing. The bearing is replaced on car at a Subaru dealership using a Hub Tamer device. This is accepted practice and "by the book" for Subaru Of America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Try to get the work done for 300 bucks or so. A proficient mechanic can perform the work in 3 hours or so. save the labor cost and pull the hub yourself, and take it into a shop that has a press. But this implies you have some tools, and you may need to buy a ball joint separator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 In California labor rates are some of the highest in the country. Hes already found one that is pretty low for the state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Worst case scenerio, the wheel can come off. Not true. The bearing could lock up and put the car into a skid, but even with no bearing in there the wheel can not come off. The CV joint is too big to fit through the hub, and the hub flange is held tight to the axle with the castle nut. Bearings will rumble for quite a while before it gets bad. Make sure it is actually the bearing, and not cupped tire wear due to wheel imbalance and poor alignment. When you're up to the level of "a helicopter type noise" it's time to get it fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Not true. The bearing could lock up and put the car into a skid, but even with no bearing in there the wheel can not come off. The CV joint is too big to fit through the hub, and the hub flange is held tight to the axle with the castle nut. Bearings will rumble for quite a while before it gets bad. Make sure it is actually the bearing, and not cupped tire wear due to wheel imbalance and poor alignment. When you're up to the level of "a helicopter type noise" it's time to get it fixed. Youre half right. The skid scenerio is more likely than my wheel coming off scenerio but it happened once at the dealer I worked at. The axle is certainly on in that case but the nut wasn't and the bearing was completely locked up. The play in the hub was huge and the wheel was in the ditch and the car in the middle of Interstate 25. I saw the car on the news before leaving for work and wondered if it was a Subaru only to find an hour later a Tow Truck backing into my bay. Advising people to wait until their car sounds like a helicopter type noise is rediculous though. Its time to get it fixed now. What difference does it make if he gets 10,000 more miles on it, hes still gotta fix it and better now than when the tow truck is required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) They typically last much longer than 64k. Being it was already done once before on the same wheel..... I would be looking for a used knuckle with good bearings. Pretty easy to find - try www.car-part.com if you can't pick one up from a yard yourself. I would be concerned that the knuckle is warped or damaged and that no bearing will last much longer than the 40k you got from the last dealership replacement. Better to just pickup a used complete knuckle for less than $50 and swap out the assembly - takes less than an hour. You can definately have it replaced - but finding a shop that is willing to actually go through the hassle of doing it correctly and also doing an ID mic. of your knuckle's bearing pocket to see if there's warpage, etc..... much harder, more expensive, and at the end of the day not really beneficial. Just figure the knuckle is bad and replace the whole unit with a good used part. Always cheaper and in most cases will last as long as you need it to. This can be an $800 repair, a $300 to $500 questionable repair, or a $100 repair with some help from a board member or someone from craigslist that needs some side work, etc. Harbor Freight has a "front wheel drive service set" (their cheap version of a hub-tamer) that includes most of what is needed to change out the bearing yourself. It cost's $80 and a new bearing is $35 and a few bucks for seals. I have done it using only what is in that set, a cheap two-jaw puller, and hand tools. The one I did using that setup now has 40k on it and no trouble at all. The owner drives 160 miles a day so I'll get to see how it lasts compared to these monkeys at the dealer that can't seem to install a bearing to save their life. GD Edited January 20, 2011 by GeneralDisorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 not a suggestion to live by but if you have ABS, the light will come on once it's bad enough to induce play where it interrupts the ABS functioning. also once there's play the car won't track straight, it'll vere left/right, you're perilously on the edge then. it needs to be done as soon as possible but it's not going to explode next week unless it's really bad right now. you've got time to make a good decision and line things up conveniently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
987687 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I drove a wheel bearing in my parent's outback into the ground a few years ago... I ignored the awful helicopter noise because it wasn't my car, and ended up getting it towed because anything over 5 mph made a terrible sound and shook the whole car. This was a rear one too... After that experience I've been careful about wheel bearings that make noise because I didn't want to repeat that experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I've bought three of them now where (apparently) the previous owner just turned up the radio and ignored everything - on the last car the front wheel bearing sounded like the rotor was dragging on the ground, the car had massive, terrible torque bind, and the engine had been starved of oil till a rod nearly let go and the lifters had deflated. Basically the woman just drove the car till it stopped driving. But you should always address wheel bearings as soon as it is apparent that there is a problem. A week or two likely isn't going to make any difference but it's just like waiting an extra 1000 miles before changing your oil - is it going to kill it? No - but it's a bad habit to get into. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brus brother Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) Just checked subarupartsforyou.com. Hub with wheel bearing assembly is $129 for 05 OB. Don't see just the bearing?? Is it easier (just as cost effective) to just change the whole hub out anyway since I don't have a press? Edited January 20, 2011 by brus brother Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Since you don't have a press/hub-tamer it will be most cost effective to just swap out the whole knuckle, yes. For $129..... pretty much a no-brainer. It's less than an hour to swap out the knuckle. Just remember to mark the upper strut bolt with a paint-pen, etc to retain the alignment when you install the new one. I would not assume that the "hub with wheel bearing assembly" is the entire knuckle though.... that price doesn't sound right. You might need a press to install it into the knuckle. That's what it sounds like from the description and the price. Usually a whole used knuckle is in the $50 or less range. I would go that route - you won't find a cheaper option. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brus brother Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Since you don't have a press/hub-tamer it will be most cost effective to just swap out the whole knuckle, yes. For $129..... pretty much a no-brainer. It's less than an hour to swap out the knuckle. Just remember to mark the upper strut bolt with a paint-pen, etc to retain the alignment when you install the new one. I would not assume that the "hub with wheel bearing assembly" is the entire knuckle though.... that price doesn't sound right. You might need a press to install it into the knuckle. That's what it sounds like from the description and the price. Usually a whole used knuckle is in the $50 or less range. I would go that route - you won't find a cheaper option. GD Thanks GD. I'll interrogate them tomorrow about http://www.subarupartsforyou.com/cp_partdetail.php?partid=13706 but since there aren't any pull-aparts that I know of here in CT and after shipping and questionable condition of used I'll take the new route if all is as it appears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camaro5690 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 not a suggestion to live by but if you have ABS, the light will come on once it's bad enough to induce play where it interrupts the ABS functioning. also once there's play the car won't track straight, it'll vere left/right, you're perilously on the edge then. it needs to be done as soon as possible but it's not going to explode next week unless it's really bad right now. you've got time to make a good decision and line things up conveniently. I have to disagree with the ABS statement. I had a bearing seize on my 99. Play was so bad I had over an inch of play when wiggling the tire. No ABS Light. Just a completely destroyed hub. Actually pulled the hub out with one hand thats how much play there was. Pulled a whole spindle out of a junkyard for 50 bucks, put a new balljoint in and called it a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Just checked subarupartsforyou.com. Hub with wheel bearing assembly is $129 for 05 OB. Don't see just the bearing??Is it easier (just as cost effective) to just change the whole hub out anyway since I don't have a press? Since you don't have a press/hub-tamer it will be most cost effective to just swap out the whole knuckle, yes. For $129..... pretty much a no-brainer. It's less than an hour to swap out the knuckle. Just remember to mark the upper strut bolt with a paint-pen, etc to retain the alignment when you install the new one. I would not assume that the "hub with wheel bearing assembly" is the entire knuckle though.... that price doesn't sound right. You might need a press to install it into the knuckle. That's what it sounds like from the description and the price. Usually a whole used knuckle is in the $50 or less range. I would go that route - you won't find a cheaper option. GD The reason it doesnt sound right is that a 2005 has a bolt in wheel bearing assembly. That price is right. Pull the axle, 4 14mm bolts hold the bearing into the knuckle. Tap with hammer on outside to drive it out. Line up the 4 bolts and slowly pull the bearing into the knuckle with the threads and light soft mallet taps on the inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Ah - I missed that it was an 05. I was still thinking '00 from the original poster.... my bad. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I have to disagree with the ABS statement. i was kidding since no one would actually wait for that as a rule. but it does happen. on some the tone rings are attached to the hub (picture attached) - play in the hub *requires* the tone ring to have play and contact something and crack the tone ring. if it doesn't - then there's not much play. around 2000 (maybe your 99?) it changes and the tone ring is installed on the axle, not the hub. mind you i'm talking *really* bad and it's an FYI, not a recommendation to wait that long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchwarzeEwigkt Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I replaced one of my wheel bearings not too long ago. Took the knuckle off, took it to a shop and had them press in a new bearing and a new hub. Cost be $95 plus parts (either $75 or $100). Took me about three hours total once I stopped screwing around and got out a big hammer to persuade the strut mounting bolts. I'll bet I could do it in an hour if I had to do it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAYJAY Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 They typically last much longer than 64k. Being it was already done once before on the same wheel..... I would be looking for a used knuckle with good bearings. Pretty easy to find - try www.car-part.com if you can't pick one up from a yard yourself. I would be concerned that the knuckle is warped or damaged and that no bearing will last much longer than the 40k you got from the last dealership replacement. Better to just pickup a used complete knuckle for less than $50 and swap out the assembly - takes less than an hour. You can definitely have it replaced - but finding a shop that is willing to actually go through the hassle of doing it correctly and also doing an ID mic. of your knuckle's bearing pocket to see if there's warpage, etc..... much harder, more expensive, and at the end of the day not really beneficial. Just figure the knuckle is bad and replace the whole unit with a good used part. Always cheaper and in most cases will last as long as you need it to. This can be an $800 repair, a $300 to $500 questionable repair, or a $100 repair with some help from a board member or someone from craigslist that needs some side work, etc. Harbor Freight has a "front wheel drive service set" (their cheap version of a hub-tamer) that includes most of what is needed to change out the bearing yourself. It cost's $80 and a new bearing is $35 and a few bucks for seals. I have done it using only what is in that set, a cheap two-jaw puller, and hand tools. The one I did using that setup now has 40k on it and no trouble at all. The owner drives 160 miles a day so I'll get to see how it lasts compared to these monkeys at the dealer that can't seem to install a bearing to save their life. GD GD do you freeze the bearing before you install them ??? jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I haven't, no. That's not in any of the perscribed procedures but there's nothing stopping you from doing it. Heck - freeze the bearing race and warm the knuckle to 150 degree's in the oven if you like. Then you will want to freeze the hub and warm the roller bearing elements as well. Or whatever applies if it's a ball bearing style. I reccomend using an impact if you use the FWD service set from Harbor Freight. The bearing race is a TIGHT fit into the knuckle and would have been a serious work-out if I didn't have my 1/2" impact to do the job. Even with that it took probably 15 minutes to get the race fully seated. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluestone Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 On further checking wheel bearing replacement cost in my neck of the woods, it seems that $350-$400 is closer to the going rate. One indie garage says that they actually do use a hub tamer when replacing bearings; says that they replace "an awful lot" of Subaru wheel bearings.....Subaru wheel bearings are not of the highest metallurgical standards and rarely last 100k miles. Also AWD is harder on wheel bearings than 2 WD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Subaru wheel bearings are not of the highest metallurgical standards and rarely last 100k miles. Also AWD is harder on wheel bearings than 2 WD. That's just BS - they routinely last over 200k. That's a fair run for any wheel bearing. Mostly it's seal failure that gets them and you can't expect a simple lip seal to last forever in that environment. Subaru's tend to get driven pretty hard because of the AWD - they corner well and that puts a lot of axial load on them. There are a *couple* models that have issues with rear wheel bearings - mostly the older Foresters and the SVX. But Subaru has corrected those problems with updated parts. There are a lot of aftermarket bearings out there that haven't kept up with Subaru's updated parts for those models, etc. Unless this place is buying them from the dealer - they can't speak with any authority on the subject. I just did a rear wheel bearing on a '98 SUS - that was it's FIRST bearing and it failed at 212k. I have another customer with a '90 Legacy he bought brand new - 265k and all original wheel bearings. I would say they "rarely" fail before 200k. A lot depends on driving style too. I see MUCH more frequent failures on cars that are driven by "spirited" owners. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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