Rust Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Replaced the oil pump seal last year and have been running synthetic 10w30 plus a qrt of Risoline at every oil change. Valve tick went away but it is comming back intermittently. Temp and oil pressure is good. Thinking of flushing the entire engine with seafoam or Gunk motor flush. Any other ideas......????? I don't think tho oil pump or seal is the problem, maybee the pick up tube in the pan is clogged or something else is blocking the oil from getting to the heads....???? Any suggestions or ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Well... I Believe that 10W~30 is Thin oil for an Old Engine... But you have Cool Climate after all. I Kindly suggest to do an engine Clean and Switch to 15W~40 Oil. (I Run mine with 20W~50 but I Live in the Caribbean Tropics) Kind Regards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 i'd replace the oil pump. my order of repair for ticking is: 1. reseal the oil pump 2. replace the oil pump (sometimes i've just skipped to this step to be done with it) i've never had to go past replacing the oil pump except for one time when two HLA's were seized (previously blown headgasket engine). but that was obviously HLA related because the noise was isolated to one cylinder on the passengers side - none of the others, and would never go away. further reseal of the cam carriers or shimming warn HLA's might be further necessary but i've never had to do that yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Don't mean to thread-jack but can I ask you guys a quick question? I was wondering (because money is tight) if it's okay to still run the engine for awhile while it's ticking. Granted...sometimes it's ticking pretty bad, I'll be honest. People look at the car and me like I'm crazy as if I'm driving it with no oil in it kind of loud sometimes. But what kind of chances am I taking by continuing to drive the car like this until I can fix it proper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Don't mean to thread-jack but can I ask you guys a quick question? I was wondering (because money is tight) if it's okay to still run the engine for awhile while it's ticking. Granted...sometimes it's ticking pretty bad, I'll be honest. People look at the car and me like I'm crazy as if I'm driving it with no oil in it kind of loud sometimes. But what kind of chances am I taking by continuing to drive the car like this until I can fix it proper? ..yrs ago I had people turn heads with the loud ticking if not banging sound from my motor..the seal or "O" ring that fits on the cam carriers were the problem..the small rubber/nitrile "O" ring seals the passage way between the carrier and head..Up until last May I was still useing that same old oil pump... still useing the same orginal lifters with 250K/mi..I use either a 5/20 or 5/30, depending on the season... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 That's another thing I've been playing with is oil viscosity. I've got 20/30 in there now, just to see how it sounds. It developed the tick with 10/30, I might try real thin oil now instead of real heavy oil.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 That's another thing I've been playing with is oil viscosity. I've got 20/30 in there now, just to see how it sounds. It developed the tick with 10/30, I might try real thin oil now instead of real heavy oil.... the only solution is to fix the problem.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 There's about a half dozen problems that cause this: Oil pump/seals Cam carrier o-rings Bypass valve springs Dirty/worn lifters Worn lifter buckets Worn out bottom end (rod/main bearings). Any and all of these contribute to the problem. Fixing one of them may solve it or you may have to go farther. Depends on how low the pressure is at the lifters and how much aeration of the oil is taking place due to failed seals. There is no magic bullet for lifter tick - changing oil viscocity will only result in worse protection against wear - either at startup or at operating temp depending on which way you go. Repair in a bottle has similar effects over time as it is not what Subaru engineers had in mind when they designed the engine - they designed it to use 10w30 oil. Not a bunch of additives or different weights except in extreme hot or cold climates. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 GD, yeah, that's what I've gathered so far. Read a few posts where you went into detail about the issue, one of which I think was theorizing whether or not there actually was aeration going on at all if I remember correctly. That's besides the point though, I'm hoping oil pump seals do the trick. I think I've read in a few places around the forum that this is usually the issue 90% of the time, unless an engine is really worn out. Well, this or the pump itself. I'm hoping it's the former. Thanks for the advices! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rust Posted October 7, 2011 Author Share Posted October 7, 2011 I agree running thinner oil/additives does not solve the problem. After I replaced the oil pump seal last year it continued to tick, then I started running the synthetic 10/30 w/ risoline. It went away after that but here it is a year later and the tick is back. I replaced the cam O rings a few years back. Since my cam seals and oil pump seals are (relatively) new I think the clog is in the lifter seats/buckets. I guess I was hoping to find magic in a can (seafoam/gunk/marvel/ect) to clean out the clogs. But I know I am going to have to tear appart the heads to fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 = \ This valve chattering seems to be a real plague for these engines, huh? It's a damn shame, we have this 93 Loyale we picked up last year that only had 52,000 miles on it at the time. Here we are one year 2 months later and that little car has taken us all over the country and to canada and back. 23,000 miles later in one year. So it now has 75,000 miles on it, and the entire car around it is solid, but that tick is getting very very frustrating = \ btw rust, awesome picture. And name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosens Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Pete !!! (RUST Pete , not the other guy) I guess you don't get text messages on that phone. Call me ASAP. I'm going to my storage NOW for a huge day of err...... fun. :-p As for your EA82 - sometimes you have to rev the pisss out ouf it to get that oil all the way to the last lifter with enough pressure to fill it. Done it , trust me. Even after new pump , seals ,etc..... still gotta get that pressure up to make that last lifter inline suck up enough oil to fill it. Didn't read the whole thread so pardon me if I'm off.... Cheers! Call me !!! Front end bars !!! etc. etc. etc ........ !!! TODAY !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeryst Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 My last car was a 94 Loyale wagon. One day when I was going to work, the oil light suddenly came on. I pulled over as soon as I could, and shut it off, but not before my lifters began to make a lot of noise. When I checked the oil, I couldnt see any on the dip stick. I happened to have a quart of slick 50 and a couple of quarts of oil with me, so I dumped them in and looked underneath the car. The oil was coming out almost as fast as I had put it in. I called a tow truck and took it to the garage, where I found out that I had blown a valve cover gasket. They fixed that gasket, and told me that the lifters were damaged, and that the noise would never go away. Not wanting to spending big bucks on new lifters, I drove it the way it was. ALthough I noticed a little drop in power, the car continued to run fine, and I drove it for another 80k miles before the rust got so bad that it wouldnt pass inspection and there was no use in getting it fixed (both front fenders really bad, rear wheel wells totally gone, rockers very bad, etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Well, another lifter story:) I stripped a 129,000 mile SPFI down to the short block the other day. I'm the second owner and it ticked the whole year I drove it. One of the cam case o-rings is sucked in. That's the supply line off the main oil gallery. The 2 cam seals are hard as rocks. The two cam o-rings are intact but worse for wear and age. So anyway. I'm using the cam carriers on an EA-82T. I'm basically going over every inch of this motor with a fine tooth comb. What I did was check the mating surface of the cam carrier where it interfaces with the head. I decided to use 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper in a solid sanding block to go over the surface. It made quite an improvement in the flatness and finish there with very little effort. Now, there is no sealant or gasket between the cam case and head for the oil passage to the lifters. I believe it's possible that some peoples engines bleed some oil off due to surface irregularities there. I can't see any downside to trueing up this surface. Unless you do it wrong. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Still driving around with a relentlessly chattering engine! Hope to get the seals and have them all replaced asap, but for now...nothing bad has happened. It is LOUD though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal_look_zero Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Being newer to the Subis, I figured this was just a symptom of the boxer style engine. Per Meeky Moose's suggestion, I put some marvel mystery oil (8oz) in my oil and topped it off with sae 30. I think I'm burning a little oil since I put in 4 qts of rotella t5 semi syn when I rebuilt the top end; and she took almost a qt of oil 2 weeks later. Anyways, it rattles on cold start up, I let it warm up until the choke cuts out, then rev to 4k a couple of times. Shuts her right up. No more noise the rest of the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 ..yrs ago I had people turn heads with the loud ticking if not banging sound from my motor..the seal or "O" ring that fits on the cam carriers were the problem..the small rubber/nitrile "O" ring seals the passage way between the carrier and head..Up until last May I was still useing that same old oil pump... still useing the same orginal lifters with 250K/mi..I use either a 5/20 or 5/30, depending on the season... I believe this is the most likely problem, but the least fixed problem due to pulling the cam towers. Rebuilding the cam towers and individually cleaning the lifters is the way to a permanent fix. there is really no advrese effects of driving with a TOD, other than maybe a compromise in performance or fuel economy with delayed valve action, but nothing is wearing out or burning up or being damaged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 (edited) I believe this is the most likely problem, but the least fixed problem due to pulling the cam towers. Rebuilding the cam towers and individually cleaning the lifters is the way to a permanent fix. there is really no advrese effects of driving with a TOD, other than maybe a compromise in performance or fuel economy with delayed valve action, but nothing is wearing out or burning up or being damaged. This 0 ring seat was a mess. That left to right line you see goes all the way left to the outer cam case. From what I've saw, these things blow out at those upper corners. The oil comes straight from the main oil galley and takes a radical up/left. That's an increase of pressure/resistince right there. The pressure gets behind the seal and caves it inward. Then the oil leaks into the cam case. The oil goes from that 0 ring area to the cam journal, then up to the jet. This passes into the head to feed the hydraulic lash adjusters. If the seal is broken on the oil supply at the 0 ring or where the oil passes from cam case to head the lash adjusters will starve for oil. There is no gasket from cam case to head and that surface can be too rough to seal. I pulled apart a 129K mile motor hoping I'd find a mint set cam cases. The O ring was blown in and it ticked the whole time I drove it. The thrust surface on the cam case for the cam journal was scuffed and worn a good bit. That's one down side for the motor if the seal blows. It just can't be good for the lash adjusters to starve for oil, not be able to function and get slapped around. Shows how durable these things are. I've got two cam cases to tune up for a motor I'm building and this one is for shop use as it's trashed. Anyway, I'm resurfacing both of them as well as the O ring seats. What ever I remove from that surface moves the cam closer to the head and pre loads the lash adjusters a little more. With a reduced base circle Delta cam, it wouldn't matter at all. Because you need to shim the lash adjuster anyway. Man, I had dreams of finding some more cam lift today there. Then I said, naw. I'm going to have to think this through again. What do you think? If I take .025 off the cam case, will I gain any lift? Edit: I'm thinking right now that the lash adjuster will compensate and absorb it. Not sure tho. Doug Edited October 20, 2011 by Quidam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l75eya Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 there is really no advrese effects of driving with a TOD, other than maybe a compromise in performance or fuel economy with delayed valve action, but nothing is wearing out or burning up or being damaged. This is what I was really curious about because it's something that hasn't been remedied for about a month now, and I'm not sure how soon it will be addressed, so that was a concern of mine. Takes a little pressure off to know it's not really causing any adverse harm though. This is the sole mode of transport for now (and for years to come if she keeps up with the storied subaru reliability) and she's crucial so I'm relieved a bit lol. The little trooper has brought us to Canada and back, and just ticked off 75,000 miles. = ) (No pun intended haha) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quidam Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Hey Guys, It happens that this is what i'm doing, so bear with me. I've got a 151 K Loyale that has the tick. I can save it and it's at only half it's potential life in mileage. I parked it untill I get it fixed, which I'll do soon. And, I drove a GL wagon a couple of years with the tick and below is the parts from it. I junked the title at 129,000 miles and wondered why it was such a dog compared to the others I'd driven. Last trip out with it, I drove from Cincinnatti to here with a 17" Grummand canoe and it struggled. It was miserable. If the lash adjesters aren't pumped up, your valves aren't opening all the way. Keep in mind that the oil from the main gallery goes through the cam out jet to lubricate the cam journals, and that's the only supply to them. Splash lube only goes so far. The journal and cam should never touch with the oil film between them. Keep this in mind. I've never heard of the head gasket oil passage o ring being blown. Neve seen it either. Under 47 ft. lb. torque. The black marker is where you will find sharp edges from the wear. I'm going to hone these as they are scuffed. By the book, clearance is .0008 to 2.8 or something. Red the flow of oil. These cam cases are used aluminum and they aren't straight. A through job can't be done here unless all this stuff is checked. IMO Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skylar Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Man im sure glad i found this forum. I just bought an 88 wagon with 220k, leaks a decent amount of oil and has a nice tick first thing in the morning. until it warms up for a good 15 minutes or so then it goes away. i was thinking about doing the oil pump and seals and the cam seals or O rings you guys were mentioning and hopefully that helps a bit. Any idea on how much a shop would charge ? im not too mechanically inclined. nor do i have an engine hoist or anything like that :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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