AndrewW01 Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 I have a 2003 Subaru Outback V6 3.0 I was driving down the highway around 60Mph and all of the sudden the car shut off and every light on the dashboard was on. I got the vehicle towed to my house and found no trouble codes and the car only cranks but no start I did replace the spark plugs a few weeks ago so I decided to put a new fuel pump in the car no fix. I decide to hell with it and put the car in neutral once I moved the gear shift I noticed a loud humming noise coming from under the car as you can hear in the audio clip I provided below. If anyone knows what my problem is or any help is much appreciated thank you ps I also have a full and brand new battery in the car and no voltage drop when cranking the car IMG_3087.m4a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_freddo Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 Check your crank angle sensor and it’s associated wiring for issues. They’re not known to die but anything is possible. Cheers Bennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dameson Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 Sounds like an electrical/wiring issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 Read the OBDII codes - what codes or pending codes exist? Are there any lights on in the dash? Is there any notable history - car sat for years, you just bought it, it was wrecked last year...etc. Or was this a perfectly reliable commuter for the last 10 years? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 The noise under the car is normal - that's the duty solenoid in the transmission responding to your gear selection. Back to basics - fuel, spark, compression. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 Check the codes again. I just don't believe that it cranks without firing and doesn't throw any codes. But yea, a shot of starting fluid will tell you if it's got spark, compression and correct timing, and you can start tracing a fuel issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewW01 Posted August 20, 2021 Author Share Posted August 20, 2021 Update on the car I can 100% confirm there are absolutely no current DTC or stored DTC in the computer now I need to check the crank position sensor like a few of y’all suggested but where is that sensor located I can’t find it online the only thing that pops up is the camshaft sensor it has the H6 3.0 motor 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 6 hours ago, AndrewW01 said: Update on the car I can 100% confirm there are absolutely no current DTC or stored DTC in the computer now I need to check the crank position sensor like a few of y’all suggested but where is that sensor located I can’t find it online the only thing that pops up is the camshaft sensor it has the H6 3.0 motor 2003 It's on the back of the engine in the bellhousing access area. One bolt. Don't drop it down inside the bellhousing once you remove or go to install it. You didn't answer my question about history - did it sit for a long period of time, any accident history? What work has been done on it in the last year? A disconnected vaccuum hose - most often the brake booster assist vaccum hose will cause a non start if it's disconnected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 (edited) oops.. my bad.. wrong year.. try this instead.. LOL http://jdmfsm.info/Auto/Japan/Subaru/Legacy_Outback/2003/ Edited August 20, 2021 by heartless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 8 hours ago, AndrewW01 said: Update on the car I can 100% confirm there are absolutely no current DTC or stored DTC in the computer now I need to check the crank position sensor like a few of y’all suggested but where is that sensor located I can’t find it online the only thing that pops up is the camshaft sensor it has the H6 3.0 motor 2003 Wow. The ECU monitors so many different sensors, it should throw a code if one of them doesn't make sense. Use your scan tool to monitor live data while cranking. If you have rpms, your crank/cam sensors are likely fine. I would definitely be trying starting fluid, next. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 did the stall happen immediately after refueling? what was the source of the new fuel pump and did you examine the cap/o-ring on the old one? how many miles on this engine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewW01 Posted August 20, 2021 Author Share Posted August 20, 2021 2 hours ago, idosubaru said: It's on the back of the engine in the bellhousing access area. One bolt. Don't drop it down inside the bellhousing once you remove or go to install it. You didn't answer my question about history - did it sit for a long period of time, any accident history? What work has been done on it in the last year? A disconnected vaccuum hose - most often the brake booster assist vaccum hose will cause a non start if it's disconnected. I bought it a few months ago and it’s been my daily since I bought it and not as I know of and all vacuum lines are connected I’m confused is there a crank position sensor on the H6 3.0 on my 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 2 hours ago, AndrewW01 said: is there a crank position sensor on the H6 3.0 on my 2003 I told you where it is in my last post: 5 hours ago, idosubaru said: It's on the back of the engine in the bellhousing access area. One bolt. Don't drop it down inside the bellhousing once you remove or go to install it. Have you scanned for codes with a scanner? Don't rely on just the check engine light. Scan the codes with the car ON and let us know if you get any pending codes after trying to start it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 20, 2021 Share Posted August 20, 2021 Watch live data on a scan tool and see if you get an RPM readout when cranking. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewW01 Posted August 28, 2021 Author Share Posted August 28, 2021 (edited) Alright update still no luck I decided to spray starting fluid into the intake and it started immediately and died so it sounds like a have a fuel issue so I took the fuel lines off the filter and I have fuel going into the filter and out and I replaced the crankshaft position sensor and still no luck im always not getting a RPM read on the gauge Edited August 28, 2021 by AndrewW01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 Computer isn't seeing the engine turning. Not enabling the injectors. Crank sensor and Cam sensor (trigger 1 and trigger 2) are primarily involved in the ECU syncing to engine RPM and firing the injectors. Check their signals with an oscilloscope and compare to known good reference waveforms. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewW01 Posted August 28, 2021 Author Share Posted August 28, 2021 25 minutes ago, GeneralDisorder said: Computer isn't seeing the engine turning. Not enabling the injectors. Crank sensor and Cam sensor (trigger 1 and trigger 2) are primarily involved in the ECU syncing to engine RPM and firing the injectors. Check their signals with an oscilloscope and compare to known good reference waveforms. GD I don’t have a oscilloscope and your saying if one of those sensors are not giving signal then there’s no power going to the injectors leading to the injectors not firing fuel into the motor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 Yes that's what GD is saying. If the computer is not seeing the signals, the ECU is not powering the injectors and no Fuel from the injectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 (edited) so weird that the system still fires the plugs..... what happens of fuel hoses were misrouted? Edited August 28, 2021 by 1 Lucky Texan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, 1 Lucky Texan said: so weird that the system still fires the plugs..... what happens of fuel hoses were misrouted? Mis-routed how exactly? The ECU driver provides a ground for the injector. The injector will have ignition switched power and generally all of the injectors get their power from the same source. If you don't have power then you have a problem with a fuse or relay or ignition switch, etc. But I'm guessing the ECU isn't driving their ground. Since you have some spark, that would tend to suggest you have a crank sensor signal. Since the ECU probably fires the plugs in wasted spark mode for which it wouldn't need a cam reference. But to know when to fire the injector in full sequential it needs the cam reference to determine if the piston is coming up on the compression stroke or the exhaust stroke. Oscilloscope's are REALLY cheap now. Everyone should have a couple around. If you want any hope of fixing modern electronic equipment you need waveform analysis ability. Also you may have insufficient fuel pressure - there's a pressure cap in the fuel pump assembly on those cars that likes to blow out. They have a locking ear the can tear away and the o-ring under the cap will partially blow out resulting in very low fuel pressure. If you changed out the pump but not the entire drop in assembly then this is a likely possibility. GD Edited August 28, 2021 by GeneralDisorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewW01 Posted August 28, 2021 Author Share Posted August 28, 2021 still no luck I actually got my hands on a brand new cam sensor and decided to throw it in the car and see what happens and still no start or rpm read I'm lost at this point lmao this is my first subaru to work on and I have no idea what I'm missing I know for sure it has to be something with the ECU not getting some data because we have spark and fuel and compression etc it started on starting fluid like I said before and I did confirm I had fuel going to the motor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, AndrewW01 said: still no luck I actually got my hands on a brand new cam sensor and decided to throw it in the car and see what happens and still no start or rpm read I'm lost at this point lmao this is my first subaru to work on and I have no idea what I'm missing I know for sure it has to be something with the ECU not getting some data because we have spark and fuel and compression etc it started on starting fluid like I said before and I did confirm I had fuel going to the motor Did you actually measure the fuel pressure at the fuel rail? Just because you have fuel doesn't mean you have sufficient pressure. A blown out pressure cap in the pump assembly will not prevent some fuel from getting downstream - just won't build pressure. Sounds to me like you don't have enough fuel pressure. But feel free to disregard my suggestion. I only do this every day for the last 12 years. As for the RPM reading - are you reading this off a live data scan tool or trying to visually see the gauge move? You aren't likely to see the gauge move at 250 to 350 rpm cranking speed. GD Edited August 28, 2021 by GeneralDisorder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewW01 Posted August 28, 2021 Author Share Posted August 28, 2021 20 minutes ago, GeneralDisorder said: Did you actually measure the fuel pressure at the fuel rail? Just because you have fuel doesn't mean you have sufficient pressure. A blown out pressure cap in the pump assembly will not prevent some fuel from getting downstream - just won't build pressure. Sounds to me like you don't have enough fuel pressure. But feel free to disregard my suggestion. I only do this every day for the last 12 years. As for the RPM reading - are you reading this off a live data scan tool or trying to visually see the gauge move? You aren't likely to see the gauge move at 250 to 350 rpm cranking speed. GD Any good tips on checking fuel pressure with a fancy tool? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 Pull the fuel pump assembly and visually inspect the pressure cap on the (not installed) filter chamber. GD 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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