2002 Forester timing pulley failed

[ThosL]

I was going relatively slowly, 30-35mpg or so.   I heard it break, hopefully no damage was done.   How big a job is this?  I read a couple threads here where they did damage in breaking and to avoid aftermarket ones.

 

Updated--corrected to reflect what we found once it was opened up.

Edited November 10, 2023 by ThosL

[lmdew]

Pretty easy to put a new belt on.  Turn it over by hand to make sure it's not binding and then start it up.  

If it has bent valves it will not be running like a good Subaru should.

Bent valves can be taken care of, but it's a bit more work to pull the heads.  I'd pull the engine at that point.

[ThosL]

2 hour job?

I didn't think I'd need my AAA membership so let it expire, good thing that they don't have a wait period at least for the basic, but the next tier that lets you tow for 100 miles does have a wait a week or more and another chunk of money.

[heartless]

providing you have no other problems, or rusty bolts, yeah, the job can be accomplished in a couple hours,

if this is your first time doing this, i would plan on at least double that, tho, maybe longer, depending

if you are smart, you will replace the idler pulleys while you are in there

[ThosL]

I reactivated my AAA membership fortunately they don't have a wait period if you were a member on 3 mile tows as the vehicle is about that far to tow.  The mechanic who my brother has used will go to you; we'll check it out later to see if there was any damage.   

[Numbchux]

I've seen them skip without damage. But broken while running, I'd bet on bent valves.

Head gasket job, plus take the heads to a machine shop for pressure testing and valve replacement as needed.

[1 Lucky Texan]

leak down test should tell you right?

[Numbchux]

4 hours ago, 1 Lucky Texan said:

leak down test should tell you right?

Even just a compression test

 

Definitely throw a belt on it and see. But I bet there's a dead hole or 2.

[ThosL]

I looked at the most pertinent Youtube videos on comparable Subarus with Timing Belts breaking and I did not see much hope there; an interference engine often will be damaged when these go, I may not help that I was going only around 25mph uphill when it broke.  I called a couple mechanics, Hispanics who are pretty intuitive, the one busy guy thought likely damage.   The other guy was going to come up to check it out but may figure that he could be opening up a can of worms.   240K plus miles, generally a good car.   

[Ferret54]

I have had 2 timing belts break. a 98 DOHC Forester we bought for our daughter in college. On way from sale from owner, engine died. Got home and disassembled. Yeah broken belt. I did plan to take it apart for head gaskets, but this had me send them out for resurfacing and 6 valves. All on drivers side head. After that repair, she then had that for 6 more trouble free years.

 

Also MY04 Forester, Going on interstate, engine just died. No loud sounds, dashboard just kit up. I had just replaced the timing belt about 20K earlier with about 130K on odometer. Had it towed home ( yes AAA and was 110 miles from home, slight charge ). similar to 98 .... 4 bent valves, all on drivers side again. Reason I THINK for failure, 5 speed has 'keeper' above crank sprocket, and I DO know SOMEONE made the clearance a little too tight thinking it would prevent it from jumping BETTER is car was pushed backward in gear. TOUGH LESSON TO LEARN. In any case, sent out heads for resurfacing and valve replacement. After rebuild I drove until 260K and then sold it. 

 

My $.02 and experiences. If it's a good car, and worth the $$$ to invest, I would. If not, look for a replacement and find someone mechanical to sell this to.

Edited October 4, 2023 by Ferret54

[heartless]

11 hours ago, ThosL said:

240K plus miles, generally a good car. 

mileage is not really the big factor here - these cars have been known to go a lot longer if cared for
the bigger question, with being in the new england area, is what kind of shape is the chassis in? is it solid? or is it rusty?

If the chassis is in decent enough condition, it would be worth fixing - if it is a rustbucket, then no.

[ThosL]

I spoke to a mechanic who'd be willing to put a timing belt on but said 99% of the time the valves are damaged as I've heard with Honda.

[88SubGL]

The machinist that I use, told me that on a Subaru, all you have to do is look at the valves wrong and they bend. At the time he had about 6 sets of Subaru heads sitting there. He also said that the valves are not expensive and he charges $250-$300 to recondition a set of heads.

[idosubaru]

On 10/2/2023 at 8:15 PM, ThosL said:

I was going relatively slowly, 30-35mpg or so.   I heard it break, hopefully no damage was done.   How big a job is this?  I read a couple threads here where they did damage in breaking and to avoid aftermarket ones.

At least you have good hearing. I would have never heard it. haha. 

The valve are bent, unless you're really lucky. It's worth a try, because if you are lucky there's no damage at all. But more than likely it's bent. 

Cheapest option is two used heads, new subaru belt and pulleys.  

Aftermarket belts have higher failure rates. The pulleys cause the belt to fail too, it's asinine not to replace them. Particularly at high mileages. 

[ThosL]

I bicycled down to the quality mechanic I've used who said he could probably look at it next Tuesday, and he was thinking the replacement engine would be $600 for a good used 2.5 and around $650 or more for the mechanical work and materials.  Someone else who was recommended said that I could have it towed to him tomorrow and he'd get to the bottom of the issue, but having had no experience with him, I'm reluctant without seeing him in person.  I'll have to do a hard nosed analysis of my options on it; body is good, suspension, tranny, etc..

[lmdew]

I could  jump on a flight and come out!

Best of luck!

I've had a few that ran fine with a new belt.  I then went in and did a full t-belt, cam and crank seals, idlers.

 

[Numbchux]

19 hours ago, ThosL said:

I bicycled down to the quality mechanic I've used who said he could probably look at it next Tuesday, and he was thinking the replacement engine would be $600 for a good used 2.5 and around $650 or more for the mechanical work and materials.  Someone else who was recommended said that I could have it towed to him tomorrow and he'd get to the bottom of the issue, but having had no experience with him, I'm reluctant without seeing him in person.  I'll have to do a hard nosed analysis of my options on it; body is good, suspension, tranny, etc..

 

It doesn't need an engine. It needs valves.

I don't believe for a second that a $650 used EJ25 is "good". Especially from a quality source willing to stand behind the product.

Unless the COMPLETE history on that used engine were known, I wouldn't just drop in a 20 year old engine. I would do MLS head gaskets and timing stuff. At which point, just fix your engine.

[heartless]

18 hours ago, Numbchux said:

 

It doesn't need an engine. It needs valves.

I don't believe for a second that a $650 used EJ25 is "good". Especially from a quality source willing to stand behind the product.

Unless the COMPLETE history on that used engine were known, I wouldn't just drop in a 20 year old engine. I would do MLS head gaskets and timing stuff. At which point, just fix your engine.

100% agree!

 

[GeneralDisorder]

Valves are bent. Probably all of them.

Sounds like you're on a budget with more time than money. 

Tools and free internet education is cheaper than a mechanic

You can often return tools after use - the various auto parts stores do this on purpose to get you in the door to buy parts (not required that you purchase any parts though). 

Amazon and ebay sell complete valve sets CHEAP - never had an issue with any of them if setup properly. 

Get HG's from Subaru ($150 for both). Get an Aisin timing kit and some cheap fluids. 

Unless you keep all the tools you buy (or hopefully you already have some of what you need). this can be a $500 repair. 

Or if you go to a shop and get the heads rebuilt and a new short block from Subaru because it's old and burns oil, etc then it can easily be a $6,500 repair. 

GD

[ThosL]

We finally got into this today.  Put in a new timing belt; one of the pulleys had failed and buggered up the the timing belt.  The passenger side is intact with compression at 150 pounds, but one cylinder has no compression.  So will have to pull the driver's side head and have the machine shop get it in normal condition.  

[GeneralDisorder]

Don't need a machine shop. Toss in some new valves, lap them, and set the lash. Resurface with glass and 120 grit. Send it. 

GD

[ThosL]

We got the job done; the machine shop had to do two valves and whatever else they do to the head.  Compression/power is better now.  But timing is off, so will have to have the mechanic adjust that which apparently is not easy.

[ThosL]

  However it's clear to me that bent or malfunctioning valves are the reason for the hesitation and sputtering on the other head.  A friend said valve timing could also account for this.

Edited October 27, 2023 by ThosL

[GeneralDisorder]

This is why I said to buy a valve SET, replace/lap ALL of them, and send it. No need for a machine shop. Do it yourself so you know it's done. 🤷‍♂️

GD

[ThosL]

I don't have the tools or space to work on it.  We'll get to the bottom of it; probably timing issues as the compression is tops.