sodakjones Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 i am getting around 13 mpg in town and 20 on the highway the car was coded and nothing bad their but the care idles low and has a hesitation. the front 02 sensor was replaced per a service recall or something like that. any idea what to look for? IT is an 2000 outback wagon with cold weather package lsd and 2.5 engin non turbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevecd Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 i am getting around 13 mpg in town and 20 on the highway the car was coded and nothing bad their but the care idles low and has a hesitation. the front 02 sensor was replaced per a service recall or something like that. any idea what to look for? i was only getting 22mpg on my legacy for a while and i decided that i would try seaform and now two tanks of gas later i'm getting 24mpg. i drive about 30% city 70% highway. not sure if it really was the seaform that clean the spark plugs or something but it seemed to do something. also check all the mantinence items like air filter, tires, oil, spark plugs wires, etc? hopefully you find what it is and let us know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 i am getting around 13 mpg in town and 20 on the highway the car was coded and nothing bad their but the care idles low and has a hesitation. the front 02 sensor was replaced per a service recall or something like that. any idea what to look for? IT is an 2000 outback wagon with cold weather package lsd and 2.5 engin non turbo. First thing i always do when buying a used car is a tune-up. i would go to an autzone also and check for codes and see if anything comes up. low idle and hesitation can be somethng as simple as a loose vacume line, which could also cause poor gas mileage. Is there any differnece between cold and hot running? nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 here's another similar thread ongoing right now: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=53225 i made some notes there on this subject. start simple like Nipper said - basic complete tune up first then move on. this site can help you out, one step at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodakjones Posted February 17, 2006 Author Share Posted February 17, 2006 here's another similar thread ongoing right now: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=53225 i made some notes there on this subject. start simple like Nipper said - basic complete tune up first then move on. this site can help you out, one step at a time. Thanks for the info what i have done so far is new plugs and putting in a new fuel filter today air filter on tues when it gets in. dont have auto zone here cost me $100 to have the codes read and the sensors put on a multimeter to verifie they are within speca also have 160k onthe car I just bought it a month ago and it is the first subi or for that mater the first import i have ever had. i love it other than the milage. ill keep you posted as to how its going also anyone know where i can get a diagram of the vacum hoses IT seams to have the idal and hesitaion issues worse after it warms up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Thanks for the info what i have done so far is new plugs and putting in a new fuel filter today air filter on tues when it gets in. dont have auto zone here cost me $100 to have the codes read and the sensors put on a multimeter to verifie they are within speca also have 160k onthe car I just bought it a month ago and it is the first subi or for that mater the first import i have ever had. i love it other than the milage. ill keep you posted as to how its going There should be other auto parts stores that will pull the code for free, ask around. If they wont you can usually rent a code reader for the cost of the reader. You get all the money back i think when you return the reader, and you can keep it a few days... just an idea. i always thought 100.00 for 5 minutes worth of work was a huge ripoff nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiny Clark Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Maybe the computer's engine temp sensor is bad, feeding too much gas when the engine is warm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slegacy96 Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 Fuel system cleanout might be good. Found out my new Leg never had one and it has 79000 on it. or K & N air filter. Adds a few horses, never needs replacing, imrpoves mpg slightly. $40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted February 18, 2006 Share Posted February 18, 2006 TC has a good idea. engine (not coolant) temp sensor. How's the temp gauge look? could be a thermostat stuck open I guess. (PLEASE search here or consult us before breaking open the cooling system!) Also, I just this week fixed a coworker's Toy paseo - incorrectly routed vacuum lines! never underestimate the ability of the last grease monkey to scr3w up your new car! $100 will BUY you your own OBDII scanner! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodakjones Posted February 23, 2006 Author Share Posted February 23, 2006 TC has a good idea. engine (not coolant) temp sensor. How's the temp gauge look? could be a thermostat stuck open I guess. (PLEASE search here or consult us before breaking open the cooling system!) Also, I just this week fixed a coworker's Toy paseo - incorrectly routed vacuum lines! never underestimate the ability of the last grease monkey to scr3w up your new car! $100 will BUY you your own OBDII scanner! temp guage looks great, just took a road trip got mid 20s on the interstate at 75 mph but in town it drank the gass fast 13 or lower new plugs new air and fuel filter no codes low idel at stop down to 300 rpm and hesitation when accelerating. issues with idle are more promonint when the engin is warmed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 temp guage looks great, just took a road trip got mid 20s on the interstate at 75 mph but in town it drank the gass fast 13 or lower new plugs new air and fuel filter no codes low idel at stop down to 300 rpm and hesitation when accelerating. issues with idle are more promonint when the engin is warmed up. Hmmm, try doing a search here for IAC (idle air control motor/servo something) Sounds like decent highway numbers I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamerg Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 temp guage looks great, just took a road trip got mid 20s on the interstate at 75 mph but in town it drank the gass fast 13 or lower new plugs new air and fuel filter no codes low idel at stop down to 300 rpm and hesitation when accelerating. issues with idle are more promonint when the engin is warmed up. Remember that we live in Brookings were everything is less than a warm-up away when it is really cold! I get horrible mileage with my 02 Outback in the winter. In the warm part of the year I will get upper teens if I drive in town only and upto 25 mpg on the highway. I wouldn't spend a lot of money yet until you know it is not weather related. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtsuberu Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 temp guage looks great, just took a road trip got mid 20s on the interstate at 75 mph but in town it drank the gass fast 13 or lower new plugs new air and fuel filter no codes low idel at stop down to 300 rpm and hesitation when accelerating. issues with idle are more promonint when the engin is warmed up. Where does one get an OBD11 SCANNER FOR A HUNDRED BUCKS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Where does one get an OBD11 SCANNER FOR A HUNDRED BUCKS? Check around. I think someone had the small Actron for $50 in the marketplace. Found my Actron CP9135 for $75 on ebay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Might be an Innova-type at wally-world(?) for around 100-120 or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Have you installed a vacume gauge. By installing the gauge, and keeping the vacume needle as high as possible, you will get your best gas milage. This will rule out or correct bad driving habits. Also if the gauge never hits max vacume, that will tell you something is wrong with the engine (vacume leak, mechanical issuses, constant drag on the engine) and not the driver. When driving in extreme cold, does your temp gauge get 1/2 way up, or does it get 1/4 of the way up. if its les then 1/2, it could be the car is never truly warming up enough to run at its best. Also if you throw snow in the mix, you can have a few extra 100 lbs of frozen snow under the car that can add to the problem. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodakjones Posted April 12, 2006 Author Share Posted April 12, 2006 can i get the vacum gauge at an auto shop and what should it read. also now that is is warmer the car periodicaly starts and stops. and will run rough for a minute before is smothes out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friendly_jacek Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Where does one get an OBD11 SCANNER FOR A HUNDRED BUCKS? I don't believe anything can beat BR-3 value and performance wise: http://www.obddiagnostics.com/ As for your MPG problems, replace front O2 sensor. It was recalled in 2001 because it had numerous failures. Unfortunately, the replacement part is the same bosch sensor! I also have 2000 legacy, had the 2001 recall done at 20,000 miles and replaced again in 2005 (60,000 miles) due to getting 16 MPG in city. Mind you, no codes or major drivability issues, but the car run rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodakjones Posted April 14, 2006 Author Share Posted April 14, 2006 thanks for the infor i know the recall was done in december on my car. could the sensor still be bad (makes sence) what would happen if i unpluged it? can i check it with a digital multi meter for proper voltage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friendly_jacek Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 thanks for the infor i know the recall was done in december on my car. could the sensor still be bad (makes sence) what would happen if i unpluged it? can i check it with a digital multi meter for proper voltage? You mean it was replaced december 2005? If so, unlikely that the sensor went bad that fast unless was bad from factory. I don't know what to tell you. I suffered 16 mpg in city for long time since there were no codes and the O2 sensor seemed OK on the OBD2 scanner. As soon as the part was replaced, the city mpg went from 16 to 19 and hwy from 24 to 26. Mind you I paid $150 for the part. Now you can have it for $80 at the dealer. With this good price I think it's no brainer, in the worst case you have a spare part. These new style wideband O2 sensors are sure very fragile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 you can't really test an O2 sensor that easily i don't believe. if it's working but not accurate it will still have good continuity and resistance but not accurate. if you're having some driveability/hesitation/starting issues then that is probably related to your mileage somehow. i'd start looking at spark plug wires and the spark pack. the idle air control is a good place to look too but i'm not familiar with how these work on the newer subarus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 you can't really test an O2 sensor that easily i don't believe. if it's working but not accurate it will still have good continuity and resistance but not accurate. if you're having some driveability/hesitation/starting issues then that is probably related to your mileage somehow. i'd start looking at spark plug wires and the spark pack. the idle air control is a good place to look too but i'm not familiar with how these work on the newer subarus. don't check resistance! many sensors will be destroyed by the ohmmeter. You can monitor voltage - but I think an o'scope will tell you if the sensor has become 'lazy'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 can i get the vacum gauge at an auto shop and what should it read. You should be able to get a vacuum gauge meant for engine diagnosis at a decent automotive supply shop for under $20. Here are a couple of Web pages that explain how to interpret the readings: http://www.classictruckshop.com/clubs/earlyburbs/projects/vac/uum.htm http://www.obd-codes.com/howto/diagnoseengine.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sodakjones Posted April 14, 2006 Author Share Posted April 14, 2006 Thanks for the informatin everyone. ill move forward with your sugestions and report back when i have something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted April 14, 2006 Share Posted April 14, 2006 You can monitor voltage - but I think an o'scope will tell you if the sensor has become 'lazy'. Yes, monitoring O2 sensor voltage can reveal quite a bit. Since a failing sensor can still have "correct" average voltage but be sluggish in operation, an oscilloscope is a better choice than a voltmeter to see what's happening. However, an O2 sensor that checks bad on a voltmeter is bad. When working correctly (once things are sufficiently warm), the voltage fluctuates around 0.45 volts or so. You can make the mixture leaner by pulling a vacuum hose, or richer by temporarily partially blocking the air intake. The O2 sensor voltage should change very rapidly after you do either, but in opposite directions. Rather than explain the theory and what to expect, I found a Web page that says it well: http://www.aa1car.com/library/o2sensor.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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