April 20, 200619 yr Carl: I think the Seafoam link would be this one (although they're almost the same): http://www.seafoamsales.com/pdf/MSDS_SFTT_US.pdf Berryman components (if I'm reading the listing right): 7% Glycol Ether EB (good degreasing solvent, used in a lot of cleaners) 23% Acetone (very good solvent, very volatile) ? % Isopropyl Alcohol (fuel dryer, main ing. in rubbing alcohol) ? % VM&P Naptha (often used by painters for thinning) 20% Methanol (fuel dryer, again very volatile and good solvent) 5% MEK (similar to acetone slightly less volatile) 17% Toluene (very good solvent and octane booster) It's a blend of some pretty aggressive and effective solvents, pretty volatile and flammable. Seafoam: 40-60% Pale Oil (high boiling point thin oil, good solvency and lubrication?) 25-35% Naptha (could be VM&P or other petro solvent) 10-20% IPA (fuel dryer and solvent) Much less volatile, more thin oil than solvent. So, they're different but probably do some of the same things. Either of these could have some things that aren't listed on the MSDS but it wouldn't be much, maybe some detergents? Steve (Chemist, not that that means I know what any of this stuff does to engines exactly)
April 20, 200619 yr Carl: I think the Seafoam link would be this one (although they're almost the same): http://www.seafoamsales.com/pdf/MSDS_SFTT_US.pdf Berryman components (if I'm reading the listing right): 7% Glycol Ether EB (good degreasing solvent, used in a lot of cleaners) 23% Acetone (very good solvent, very volatile) ? % Isopropyl Alcohol (fuel dryer, main ing. in rubbing alcohol) ? % VM&P Naptha (often used by painters for thinning) 20% Methanol (fuel dryer, again very volatile and good solvent) 5% MEK (similar to acetone slightly less volatile) 17% Toluene (very good solvent and octane booster) It's a blend of some pretty aggressive and effective solvents, pretty volatile and flammable. Seafoam: 40-60% Pale Oil (high boiling point thin oil, good solvency and lubrication?) 25-35% Naptha (could be VM&P or other petro solvent) 10-20% IPA (fuel dryer and solvent) Much less volatile, more thin oil than solvent. So, they're different but probably do some of the same things. Either of these could have some things that aren't listed on the MSDS but it wouldn't be much, maybe some detergents? Steve (Chemist, not that that means I know what any of this stuff does to engines exactly) wow - very good succinct breakdown from the lousy links I provided. thanx Steve Carl
April 20, 200619 yr Just called Carquest and they have it here in Montreal. So there's a good chance they have it nationaly.Good luck! Thanks but I just checked their website and they don't seem to have any locations in Canada west of Ontario. http://carquest.know-where.com/carquest/
April 20, 200619 yr Carl: I think the Seafoam link would be this one (although they're almost the same): http://www.seafoamsales.com/pdf/MSDS_SFTT_US.pdf Berryman components (if I'm reading the listing right): 7% Glycol Ether EB (good degreasing solvent, used in a lot of cleaners) 23% Acetone (very good solvent, very volatile) ? % Isopropyl Alcohol (fuel dryer, main ing. in rubbing alcohol) ? % VM&P Naptha (often used by painters for thinning) 20% Methanol (fuel dryer, again very volatile and good solvent) 5% MEK (similar to acetone slightly less volatile) 17% Toluene (very good solvent and octane booster) It's a blend of some pretty aggressive and effective solvents, pretty volatile and flammable. Seafoam: 40-60% Pale Oil (high boiling point thin oil, good solvency and lubrication?) 25-35% Naptha (could be VM&P or other petro solvent) 10-20% IPA (fuel dryer and solvent) Much less volatile, more thin oil than solvent. So, they're different but probably do some of the same things. Either of these could have some things that aren't listed on the MSDS but it wouldn't be much, maybe some detergents? Steve (Chemist, not that that means I know what any of this stuff does to engines exactly) How does Berryman compare to 44k from BG? I went to their website but couldn't find a MSDS. Has anyone heard of 44k or have used it besides me?
April 20, 200619 yr Hope we're not getting too far off Gnuman's original post... Couldn't find the MSDS for 44K either. Called a distributor and requested one, they're faxing it to me but not until later today. BUT... as I alluded to before (probably not strongly enough though), the MSDS is only part of the story. Manufacturers put only what is required by law to be on there (usually) and leave out important proprietary bits. Active ingredients that actually do the magic stuff may only represent 2% of the formula in total but can have a big influence on the effect of the product. That being said, it's clear from the Berryman vs. Seafoam data that they work differently. Read this thread: http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=002944;p=0 and the post about 1/3 of the way down, for a very well written response from someone who claims to be an employee of BG Products, discussing what I mention in the previous paragraph of my post here. Sorry Gnuman if we've gone astray from your post Steve
April 20, 200619 yr Hope we're not getting too far off Gnuman's original post... Couldn't find the MSDS for 44K either. Called a distributor and requested one, they're faxing it to me but not until later today. BUT... as I alluded to before (probably not strongly enough though), the MSDS is only part of the story. Manufacturers put only what is required by law to be on there (usually) and leave out important proprietary bits. Active ingredients that actually do the magic stuff may only represent 2% of the formula in total but can have a big influence on the effect of the product. That being said, it's clear from the Berryman vs. Seafoam data that they work differently. Read this thread: http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=002944;p=0 and the post about 1/3 of the way down, for a very well written response from someone who claims to be an employee of BG Products, discussing what I mention in the previous paragraph of my post here. Sorry Gnuman if we've gone astray from your post Steve Good point on the 'proprietary' issue. WD-40 is mostly stoddard solvent, folks THINK the remainder is a silicone lubricant. Carl
April 20, 200619 yr Hope we're not getting too far off Gnuman's original post... Couldn't find the MSDS for 44K either. Called a distributor and requested one, they're faxing it to me but not until later today. BUT... as I alluded to before (probably not strongly enough though), the MSDS is only part of the story. Manufacturers put only what is required by law to be on there (usually) and leave out important proprietary bits. Active ingredients that actually do the magic stuff may only represent 2% of the formula in total but can have a big influence on the effect of the product. That being said, it's clear from the Berryman vs. Seafoam data that they work differently. Read this thread: http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=002944;p=0 and the post about 1/3 of the way down, for a very well written response from someone who claims to be an employee of BG Products, discussing what I mention in the previous paragraph of my post here. Sorry Gnuman if we've gone astray from your post Steve So...generally speaking, Berryman or 44K are better suited for fuel induction cleaning, whichever you prefer, and SeaFoam is more towards oil crankcase, but is also an effective air induction cleaner. I've never tried it but one could use 44K as an air induction cleaner as well. The instructions on the 44k can don't mention the PCV valve treatment, whereas SeaFoam does. BG may have another cleaner better suited to air induction cleaning that I'm not aware of. In any case, with the price of fuel approaching stupidly expensive, any one of these chemicals should make sure that our prized Scoobys (what ever they may be) will be running as cleanly as possible and help us earn higher MPG's than vehicles that haven't been treated or are not maintained very well.
April 20, 200619 yr Thanks but I just checked their website and they don't seem to have any locations in Canada west of Ontario. http://carquest.know-where.com/carquest/ As I noted in an earlier post (saturday, I think) try NAPA. I think they are carrying it chain-wide in Canada, but all may not have it yet.
April 21, 200619 yr Followed the forum instructions, bought seafoam, made my car suck it through the PCV valve...conclusion: Seafoam = God's finger in a red and white can. The stuff made my car run perfect all over again like when I first got it. WooHoo for SeAfOaM!!! Regards, Brandon Bartolomucci 95 Subaru Impreza L
April 21, 200619 yr It's definitely a miracle in a can. My OBW (215K+ miles) thanks me every time I use it (about 3 apps so far, with about 50K in-between each).
April 21, 200619 yr I have read a lot about Seafoam in the past day or so. I have a 2000 OBW with 163K on it. I have read some cautions about using this product in the crankcase with high mileage vehicles... It could soften the seals and cause leaks. Has anyone had any problems? I've already bought the can and I am just waiting to try it. I'm looking forward to the smoke show. Hopefully my neighbors don't call the fire dept.
April 21, 200619 yr I don't think you're going to get much of smoke show from the crankcase. Gotta use it in the intake for that.
April 21, 200619 yr As far as use in the crankcase, as I stated earlier I use it kind of like an oil flush. Dump it in, run the engine for a while, then empty and refill the system. Never a problem and I have many miles on this rig. It certainly has a more dramatic effect (on performance -- not just the smoke cloud) when fed in thru the intake.
April 21, 200619 yr Well, I'm going to go ahead and use it... I'll use 1/3 in the intake, 1/3 in the crank case, and 1/3 in the gas tank. I'll let you know the results on Monday!
April 21, 200619 yr Author Wow! that is a lot of reaction from what I thought was just a simple post. . . First off, comparing other products that do similar things is not going astray. I have not used those other products (I may have used the B-12), but I have used Seafoam in each of it's methods. 1/3 can will do a lot in the PCV, but not a lot in the oil or tank. in the tank it will be too diluted to do much in the way of cleaning. If you use it in the tank, use a whole can to a half tank of gas, or even a full tank. When I put a wholle can into the crankcase, I drove it for about a hundred miles before changing the oil. This is on a car with 150K on it at the time. What Seafoam does is clean off a lot of the varnish, which builds up around the seals. Because the seals themselves are old, and deteriorated, this causes leakiage sometimes, as the varnish buildup was what was actually sealing the engine. Does this mean that Seafoam is a bad thing in the crankcase? No. It means that you needed to replace the seals anyway. If you put Seafoam in your crankcase, and it leaks, that is all it means. The preceding is my opinion. No scientific studies were performed in the forming of these opinions. If scientific evidence can be provided to refute these opinions, I would like to see it.
April 21, 200619 yr strange...this forum is the very first time i've ever heard of seafoam... i always try and keep my engines clean...or clean them up if i buy something different....i tend to prefer Amsoil (ya...i'm waiting for them to make a product i can drink) they make a couple of really good products, power foam for in the intake, and engine flush for the crankcase. i didn't use the engine flush in the 92 legacy before going to synthetic, and the oil got dirty pretty quick. i used it in the outback and the oil is still clean with about the same miles. of course to start with the legacy had a lot more miles and years to build up funk. i also use their gas additive, haven't really noticed a difference but it removes water so i use for that reason. i looked at the MSDS on their site for the foam and the flush, but i'm afraid the chemistry is above my pay grade.
April 22, 200619 yr Author I had not heard of SeaFoam before reading this forum either, but I saw some in a local AutoZone, and decided to give it a try (car had 140K on it then). The results were very impressive, to say the least. I have used it on several cars since, always with very good results. Well, except on the 90 Legacy wagoon I got for my ex-wife. That car had a 15 3/4 valve EJ22 in it. I just picked up the replacement valve today. SeaFoam is good, but there are limitations. . .
April 22, 200619 yr I had the usual part-throttle hesitation on my 97 OBW, and two applications of SeaFoam nearly eliminated it. But in the fuel tank I use Techron.
April 25, 200619 yr Can't check the ingredients now but alot of what everyone is talking about can be had with GM top end cleaner,it's not a fix all but did wonders for my 79 Ford truck.Alot of the usage descriptions sound the same,my truck blew smoke like crazy as I sprayed this down my carb but it sure cleaned the insides out,and in the long run pinpointed a lifter problem. can be used through any intake and will clean injector ends somewhat. Be sure to change your oil after a 100 miles or so. John
April 25, 200619 yr is the amount of smoke the car produces indicative of how much gunk was in there? I just did seafoam on the intake and though it blew out SOME smoke, it was not the "rock concert show" I was expecting from some of the posts herehttp://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
April 25, 200619 yr so if my 27yo car only has 75k miles would it still make a difference already? also what if I just do the pvc dump (a whole bottle wont hurt right?) and not the gas tank or the oil, should that be enough?
April 25, 200619 yr so if my 27yo car only has 75k miles would it still make a difference already? also what if I just do the pvc dump (a whole bottle wont hurt right?) and not the gas tank or the oil, should that be enough? I'm no expert on Seafoam, but I'd expect a 27 yo car with that low mileage could have some carbon buildup due to possibly driven in such a manner it doesn't get heated up much. Carl
April 26, 200619 yr Author so if my 27yo car only has 75k miles would it still make a difference already? also what if I just do the pvc dump (a whole bottle wont hurt right?) and not the gas tank or the oil, should that be enough? If that is the actual age of the car, and not a typo for 17yo car, it will still make a difference. Actually it will likely make a difference in either case. Also, in either case, at only 75K miles, all you should really need is the top end cleaning, which is done through a vacum line, or the PVC valve (your choice. I use the vac line as it is easier for me).
April 26, 200619 yr Just used a can in my 2000 Dodge Caravan with a VERY noisy engine (lifter and injector) today. 1/2 of a can in the oil and the other half in a nearly empty tank of gas. Did 10 miles at 80mph on the freeway with some WOT at times. Let's just say that it purrs like a kitten now. My 1990 Loyale (200k+) was treated last year, but one of the HLA's is still calling out for some more Seafoam. Good stuff.
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