Uberoo Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 im trying to time my EA82 after having to remove the head.I have been following miles fox's writeup to the letter.no matter what I can not get the three marks on the flywheel to even come close to lining up.it usally ends up 40-100* off.Why in the hell is this happening!!!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 Take both belts off, turn the flywheel to the center of the three valve timing marks, put the passenger side cam mark up, and the drivers side down, put both belts on, and then time the disty. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted September 27, 2006 Author Share Posted September 27, 2006 I didnt take the disty off.I had to remove the passenger side head..but I'll try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggroller Posted September 27, 2006 Share Posted September 27, 2006 I didn't take the distributor off when I did the timing belt either. Sure, enough I had to pull it out and position it correctly. (after all of the other steps) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Take both belts off, turn the flywheel to the center of the three valve timing marks, put the passenger side cam mark up, and the drivers side down, put both belts on, and then time the disty. GD +1 i blame the heisenberg uncertainty principle. who knows why, but if you do what GD said you know its timed correct. if it still doesnt work, update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 I have the cams timed right.now how do I set the ign timing?do I just pull the disty with the crank at the ignition timing marks and then put it back in or? also I reused the original intake gaskets and they leaked bady(the cooling system was filling up the cylenders-I caught it and pulled the plugs and cranked the motor over.is it absolutly critical to use oem gaskets?felpro gaskets are like $4 bucks for both,at the dealer the gaskets are $35 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Dealer quoted you the wrong part. The manifold gaskets at the dealer about ~$3 each. And YES it's absoutely critical. You use those fel-pro's and I guarantee they will fail in the next year or earilier depending on amount of driving - I had a set last 3 months once. Sounds like they quoted you for head gaskets or something - those are about $28 at my dealer...... Incidentally, this is exactly WHY you keep having so many problems - you need to stop cutting corners. Those gaskets should always be replaced, as should any gasket that holds back coolant. Clean the surfaces REALLY well. My preference is a soft wire wheel in a drill. You shouldn't be able to see anything on the surfaces but CLEAN silver metal. Torque the bolts to 12 ft/lbs. As for ignition timing you can do a search on the board. Put the engine at TDC for cylinder 1 and drop the disty in pointing at #1 plug wire on the cap. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 I tried the disty it was pointing at #1 when at TDC.I adjusted the belts becuase the drivers side belt was off by a tooth.then I rotated the engine to where the passenger side cam was up.the cams are staying at 180* apart but it seems as though the belts are slipping/stretching enough to where the three marks on the flywheel dont line up anymore.I have a new passenger side belt.the driver's side is oem but it looks in very good shape.could the age difference in the belts be causeing anything?again both cams are staying in time with each other but not with the flywheel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Just do it again - start from the beginning. You are not doing it right if it's not lining up. Keep doing it till you get it right. Practice makes perfect as they say. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted September 28, 2006 Author Share Posted September 28, 2006 this is exactly what I am doing: tell me what I am doing wrong. 1.turn the passenger side cam until its dot is faceing straight at the top mark on the cam cover 2.turn the driver's side cam so its dot is facing straight down at the bottom dot on its cam belt cover 3.rotate the crank clockwise till the pointer is pointing at the middle mark of the three closely spaced notches on the flywheel 4.put the belts on,try to have as little slack as possible on the side of the belt the tensioner doesnt act on(all slack on the tensioner side) 5.tension the belts 6.rotate engine a couple of revolutions to see if everything stays lined up.the cams are staying 180* from each other but after rotating the crank 720* the marks end up about 5-10 degrees from the pointer. please dont say practice makes perfect.I was working on it most of yesterday until 5 couldn't get everything to line up.today isnt looking much different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Well... I think about This: Are you Shure that the passenger´s cam is pointing down, and the DRIVER side cam is pointing UP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Once the tensioners take up all the slack the marks don't always line up perfectly. You have to realize that the cams rotate at 1/2 crank speed. 5 degrees at the flywheel will translate to 2.5 degrees at the cams. Probably just how it's going to line up. They don't always line up perfectly. Don't sweat it if it's a tiny bit off after rotating it. As long as it generally correct it should work fine. If you rotate it around and the cams are a tooth off, line the mark on the flywheel up, and rotate the cams one notch on the belt till it lines up. Each time you test the setup it should be narrowing it down to the correct timing. Put them on, time the disty, and try running it. If it runs crappy, redo them. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Well... I think about This: Are you Shure that the passenger´s cam is pointing down, and the DRIVER side cam is pointing UP? It doesn't matter - it will work either way as long as the distributor is stabed in correctly. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Yes! ...but I found some info about that, that says that at the end of install process, belts shall end like that. Milesfox did share more info about that Here: http://www.scoobymods.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-4551.html Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Yes! ...but I found some info about that, that says that at the end of install process, belts shall end like that. Milesfox did share more info about that Here: http://www.scoobymods.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-4551.html Good Luck! Again - cams rotate 1/2 crank speed. That means that they will line up with drivers side up, and passenger side down 1/2 of the time and the other half they will be opposite. Every other revoloution is the same (Down/Up, Up/Down, Down/Up.... etc). GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robm Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 If it still won't work right, avoid GD's "shortcut" method, and do one cam at a time. GD's system works for experts, but for the extra minutes, is it worth the risk? Start with the driver's side (rear cam sprocket) lined up on the mark, and the crank at the centre of the 3 marks. The passenger side doesn't matter, it is a non-interference engine. Install the driver's side belt, adjust the tension. Turn the crank ONCE to get the 3 marks lined up again. The driver's side cam will now face down. Line up the passenger side cam on the mark, install the belt, adjust the tension. Crank it around a few times, and make sure it isn't off. It can be really easy to miss by a tooth. The nice thing about this system is it isn't necessary to retime the distributor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 get a new timing belt for the other side too.. "stop cutting corners" timing belts are the LAST place to do so.... and I am a cheap bugger myself. one new timing belt is just a guarantee that in the future, you will be doing this all again. do you want another headache in six months when the drivers side belt breaks? and who knows how stretched it may be. never replace timing belts one at a time. that would be like replacing one headgasket, one brake pad, or one piston ring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 have you tried starting it? I'd assemble it to the bare minimum to attempt starting, and see if it runs. if it's off, even just one tooth, it won't start, and if it does, it'll run like total crap. when I did my first timing belt job, I didn't remove the disty. I took the cap off to verify it, and had to adjust it for the ignition timing, but never had to take it off.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvexplorer Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 My first timing belt job I never even took the cap off of the disty. Just replaced the belts and read some posts here to figure out that one is 180* out from the other. I did the first one side then the other method and it worked the third time and then just had to adjust the ign timing at the disty. Been running great since. Just take your time and try to get things lined up one by one. If it doesn't start then something isn't right and needs to be done again. I'm just glad that this was the first car I've done timing on. So much more room for error than other engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 if it's off, even just one tooth, it won't start, and if it does, it'll run like total crap. I was 'helping' a mate of mine do his EA82 timing belts. Well I wasn't helping very good because we were doing something very wrong. By the time we figured it all out we relised we had the motor running with the disty cam off by 2 teeth and the other off by 3 teeth! It ran, didn't want to rev below 2500, and didn't want to rev above 3200... but it ran. Remember, it's ok to run the motor without water for about 30seconds. After that you want to cool it down before starting again. Also, you aren't going to damage anything by running it even without the belts.. its a non-interference engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_talk Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 FWIW, I bought a '90 Loyal with the P-side cam one tooth retarded, ran pretty good. I found the problem when I resealed the engine, fixed it... runs about the same. :-\ And I normal use the one belt at a time method. Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoostedBalls Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 I'm working on the same thing right now and I hope I don't have the same problems as I have a real short temper when it comes to things not working logically. Anyway, if all else is good, a quick compression test will tell you if the cams are timed properly. You don't even need the disty for the check. If one side is higher than the other, you are off by a tooth or two on one belt. If you have 130psi or so on each side-drop the disty in pointing to #1 when the engine is at TDC, the three lines are only for cams. Also, I didn't rely on the wimpy tensioner springs to hold my belts tight, I gave them a little extra tension while I locked them bolts down. Maybe this will keep them from jumping time just from rotating the engine. If all else fails- blow something up or beat something with a club or just kick back with a rum and coke. There's always tomorrow. And it really sucks to find out that you missed something simple that really screwed the whole process. Hell, NASA even does that! Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted September 29, 2006 Author Share Posted September 29, 2006 yea Ive been meaning to relax with something that leaves me feeling as though my head is in the clouds.and I just found a bunch of blackcats...yaaa! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted September 29, 2006 Author Share Posted September 29, 2006 ok im tring the one at a time method.the left belt and the crank are perfectly aligned.now I can't get the passenger side to line up.with both belts installed where there supposed to be ,after rotating the engine 360* the passenger side belt appears to be off by a tooth.if I rotate the engine another 360 degrese both belts,cams,and the crank line up.confused... also yesterday I accidentaly broke the upper portion of the inner left cover namely the area with the notch.what can I use to align the left cam so it is straight up?tring to use the lower notch but depending on how I look at it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 ok im tring the one at a time method.the left belt and the crank are perfectly aligned.now I can't get the passenger side to line up.with both belts installed where there supposed to be ,after rotating the engine 360* the passenger side belt appears to be off by a tooth.if I rotate the engine another 360 degrese both belts,cams,and the crank line up.confused... also yesterday I accidentaly broke the upper portion of the inner left cover namely the area with the notch.what can I use to align the left cam so it is straight up?tring to use the lower notch but depending on how I look at it.... there isn't a notch on the bottom of the covers. it's lined up almost exactly with the seam between the cam case and the valve cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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