DO NOT RUN IT , it's on a 88 turbo a/t full time 4wd wagon with 125,000mi on it , runs very bady , jerks , pops , no power on lower end, i mixed 10 gal 85% ethanol to 3gal 87 octine , , it was running fine on mid-grade or higher , plugs are gapped, new, cap, rotor, good wires, new fuel filter, no cat,

It will do that. E85 burns close to 10:1 instead of gasoline's 14.7:1. At closed loop, you're fine because the O2 sensor will force the ECU to correct, however at WOT and open loop, you won't be fine.

 

Plus, in order to do it right, you'd have up the fuel pressure, and probably get larger injectors.

 

The largest problem is E85 just requires more fuel to run.

ok, so i guess it will not hurt the 02, or injectors ? to late now, full tank ,so it will be aleast a week to run it out , so running it in spfi motor would really screw it up ?

ok, so i guess it will not hurt the 02, or injectors ? to late now, full tank ,so it will be aleast a week to run it out , so running it in spfi motor would really screw it up ?

Running a car on E85 that's not designed for it (namely the ECU calibration) or hasn't been retrofitted for it can definitely have some adverse effects.

 

As compared to gasoline, you need about 27%-33% more E85 by volume at cruise and WOT. I don't know the ins and outs of the SPFI ECU, but I can almost guarantee it can't adjust the fuel trims enough to compensate for the needed extra fuel. Just not that much flexibility in the ECU and with the single injector. You're going to run quite lean, even if all your sensors (mainly the O2 sensor) are working as they should. Lean enough to cause damage? I'm not sure, but I sure as heck wouldn't want to be the one to test this out.

 

As a counterpoint, a friend and I have very successfully ran E85 in his Eclipse GSX. A much bigger pump was installed, along with bigger injectors and a way to properly control the injectors through the ECU. The car runs bloody fast and has absolutely no knock!

well live and learn, well run it down and add 87 octine or wal- mart gas,

DO NOT RUN IT , it's on a 88 turbo a/t full time 4wd wagon with 125,000mi on it , runs very bady , jerks , pops , no power on lower end, i mixed 10 gal 85% ethanol to 3gal 87 octine , , it was running fine on mid-grade or higher , plugs are gapped, new, cap, rotor, good wires, new fuel filter, no cat,

 

You may have a problem now. Ethanol is a strong slvent. you may have loosened up all the crud in your fuel system. I dont know how long it takes for the stuff to attack rubber, with any luck yuo have escaped that. I dont think its going to hurt any of the floats either, but you DO have to change the fuel filter now.

There is alot of things that have to be changed to run on e85 to make a car run on it.

 

nipper

well aleast it will clean out the fuel system,it does seem to take off like a rocket after 40 mph, so may question now is will it hurt it ? and yes after i run it out change the filter, or should i run it down to 1/2 tank and add 87 octine or run it all the way out

Change the fuel filter and reset the ECU when transferring to ethonal.. there's a guy in CO running a late 80 SPFI wagon on E85 with no problems.

Change the fuel filter and reset the ECU when transferring to ethonal.. there's a guy in CO running a late 80 SPFI wagon on E85 with no problems.

 

 

Well then hes got great luck, as everyone including the people who make the stuff say it should not be done, or he did it properly by completly cleaning the fuel system and replacing the rubber parts (or confirming that they are alcohol freindly).

I have done lots and lots of research on this, and ther is alway one odd ball claiming it works (see the water thread) but everyone strongly advises against it.

 

nipper

thanks for the help.should i change the filter now or wait, did more research , i have read about bigger injectors etc.. but nothing about eating away the fuel line or plastic parts,

trust me, I have experience on running e-85 on two subarus and one cadillac, and recommend it if you know what you are doing

 

keep a spare fuel filter in the car in case the filter plugs

 

do a search for subiemech85 and ethanol e-85 e85 corn acetone water

yea dont run that, it eats at the rubber parts and causes leaks, it also produces alot of water when burning, causing super accelerated corrosion of the exhaust system

^^where do you get this? I'm not trying to be insulting, but there are some awefully steep claims in this thread without much physical proof.

 

MANY EJ-series subaru guys run E85. Search Nasioc, RS25, Legacycentral, etc.

 

I have not yet tried it, but it's a higher octane, and burns cooler, so it's great for aftermarket forced induction situations. and I intend to run it next summer.

 

what I've heard, is that you can't just switch straight to it. and running such a rich mixture doesn't help either. start with just a few gallons per tank. and work your way up. the EJ ECU can easily accomodate the differences required...the EA one? who knows. I'd worry more about overloading the injector in an SPFI car...

 

it is a solvent, and can be a bit harder on things, this is also part of the reason to not switch immediately. but has been used successfully in subarus many times before.

in any case i will not run it again, decided to run it down and add 87 octine at 1/2 tank,+ change filter, i hope no damage

I'm with numbchux here. If ethanol is such a strong solvent that will eat your fuel lines and your injector, I'd think the 10% ethanol mixtures we run here in the states would start to wear the fuel components much faster.

 

Yes, ethanol is a strong solvent, but I would think the equipment in an SPFI soob could handle it as long as its not pure.

Yes, ethanol is a strong solvent, but I would think the equipment in an SPFI soob could handle it as long as its not pure.

 

And How About a Carbed EA Engine? ... I didn`t try Ethanol or Somethin` Alike; but I Run Poor Octane Gas and High Octane Gas without much Difference, in my Weberized EA82... but, How it would Handle Ethanol/Gas Mix?

 

Just Curious, `cos I Won`t use Antyhin` that could Damage my Subies on `em.

And How About a Carbed EA Engine? ... I didn`t try Ethanol or Somethin` Alike; but I Run Poor Octane Gas and High Octane Gas without much Difference, in my Weberized EA82... but, How it would Handle Ethanol/Gas Mix?

Maybe with rejetting?

Maybe with rejetting?

 

Yes you can rejet the carb to run on e85, but at that point your married to e85.

 

I hate to ask the obvious question, but whay run on something that yeilds 30% less gas mileage, so in the end is more expensive to run?

 

nipper

I hate to ask the obvious question, but whay run on something that yeilds 30% less gas mileage, so in the end is more expensive to run?

Numbchux touched on it, but retrofitting an E85 fuel system is most advantageous on a forced induction setup. The octane level is in the neighborhood of 100-107 (depending upon the mix of ethanol & gas at that particular station) and is cheaper than 87 octane more often than naught. Doesn't get as good of mileage as gas due to the increased volume needed, but running ridiculous boost levels on fuel available at a normal gas station is quite nice.

 

I've seen it done on many DSMs, and I know the WRX/STi guys are jumping on this bandwagon too.

Numbchux touched on it, but retrofitting an E85 fuel system is most advantageous on a forced induction setup. The octane level is in the neighborhood of 100-107 (depending upon the mix of ethanol & gas at that particular station) and is cheaper than 87 octane more often than naught. Doesn't get as good of mileage as gas due to the increased volume needed, but running ridiculous boost levels on fuel available at a normal gas station is quite nice.

 

I've seen it done on many DSMs, and I know the WRX/STi guys are jumping on this bandwagon too.

 

ok then in that case i can understand it. But what happens when your running that much boost and need to get gas where there is no e85?

If this is a car thats married to town, then thats fine, but now your talkign about having a second car for real trips, or am i wrong (talking turbo/super charged engines here, not n/a)

 

nipper

ok then in that case i can understand it. But what happens when your running that much boost and need to get gas where there is no e85?

Run dual VE tables on Megasquirt

 

I'd like to do that.

ok then in that case i can understand it. But what happens when your running that much boost and need to get gas where there is no e85?

If this is a car thats married to town, then thats fine, but now your talkign about having a second car for real trips, or am i wrong (talking turbo/super charged engines here, not n/a)

 

nipper

 

E85 is more readily available than race gas....

 

although most of the guys I know using it, are tuned for premium, and run an E85 mix with 90, or 87 octane. So they're averaging ~95-100 octane, and spending less than premium would cost.

 

and from what I've heard, E85 doesn't hurt your mileage 30%...my buddy was running it on his turbo'd impreza, and was getting ~22 on regular gas, and ~20 on E85...(and he was running pretty close to a pure mixture).

 

 

it may be different in other parts of the country, but virtually all the gas here in MN has some Ethanol in it....and E85 is insanely subsidized by the state , so it's quite cheap. easily $.50 cheaper per gallon than 87 octane

E85 is more readily available than race gas....

 

although most of the guys I know using it, are tuned for premium, and run an E85 mix with 90, or 87 octane. So they're averaging ~95-100 octane, and spending less than premium would cost.

 

and from what I've heard, E85 doesn't hurt your mileage 30%...my buddy was running it on his turbo'd impreza, and was getting ~22 on regular gas, and ~20 on E85...(and he was running pretty close to a pure mixture).

 

 

it may be different in other parts of the country, but virtually all the gas here in MN has some Ethanol in it....and E85 is insanely subsidized by the state , so it's quite cheap. easily $.50 cheaper per gallon than 87 octane

 

I know people belevie what they want to, but unless your doing it first hand, never beleive what others say.

 

BTW the fuel consumption is directly linear to the energy the fuel makes. This is an established fact that e85 has 30% less energy then gasoline.

 

I drove cross country in september and october, the only places i saw e85 stations were in Iowa. Iowa also had premium selling for less then regular.

"some ethanol" is NOT e85. "Some ethanol" is gasahol at 10% ethanol. Being from NY i dont see what the big deal is about gasahol as we have had it since the 1980's.

 

 

 

Here are the facts in black and white

 

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byfuel/FFV2000.shtml

http://www.ve85.com/FAQ/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060812062229AAq6pno

 

nipper

did research today at alocal dealer, there should not be any damage done, but run it out as soon as possible ,run it down to 1/2 tank then add 87 octine , your fuel system will be cleaned out

Iowa's 'premium' contains much more than 10% ethanol, that's why it's cheaper (government subsidized).

 

And when I say I've heard, I mean talking, in person, to people I know and trust and I know have actually done it. not just stuff posted on internet forums. including one highschool buddy, who's probably done less work on his own car than I have...

 

Anyway, I don't know the proven facts about how much energy they use. only that a ~90% E85 mix with 89 octane did not yield a 30% decrease in mileage. there may have been other factors involved...but that's how it ended up.