4RnrRick Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 I built a High Compression MPFI motor (non turbo) but somethings wrong. Its REALLY REALLY noisy. The sound is a loud mechanical sound. kinda like a rod knock but much more frequent??? BTW its installed in a 1990 Loyale with a 4spd Auto and all the parts are from EA82 wagons. Heres the parts I used. 88 SPFI block (was a good and smooth running motor) 88 MPFI heads & Cams (from a EA82T motor that had a rod knock) 90 MPFI Turbo Intake and Harness (with turbo removed) 90 MPFI Turbo ECU 88 SPFI Exhaust New head gaskets New cam tower o-rings Custom intake hose I also: Capped off the turbo oil pressure and return line. Routed the turbo coolant line through a hose (since the turbo is now removed) So did I miss something when I built the motor. I know there is something wrong with it becasue it sounds like crap - I'm just not sure where to go from here... Please HELP me identify the sound. It starts fine and I don't hear any stumbles through the lower rpm range. (but I'm affraid to run it much sounding like this) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subaru_dude Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 severe case of TOD? can you record the sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4RnrRick Posted December 8, 2006 Author Share Posted December 8, 2006 severe case of TOD? can you record the sound? TOD?? Yes, I Might be able to record the sound but I can't do that until tonight. BTW I'm attaching a picture of what this setup looks like. if you look closely you will be able to see the MPFI injectors under the mess. and you can kinda see how I adapted the SPFI intake tube to the MPFI Thottle body and MAF. Also notice that there is no turbo on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank B Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 TOD = tick of death Valve lifter tick. The hydraulic lifters are full of air from a leaking oil pump O-ring(mickey mouse O-ring). Or they are not pumping up, after sitting for a long time the oil will drain down and it sometimes takes a while to pump back up. If the sound is faster than a rod knock, and is a lighter metallic sound, and it's coming from the heads more than the center of the block, it is the valve tick. Did you replace the oil pump? How long have you had the engine running like this? It can take 15-20 minutes of idling to go away sometimes. I fyou haven't had it running long, try adding a quart of kerosene into the oil and idling it for 15-20 minutes, drain, refill with oil and replace the filter. If you don't like kerosene, use Seafoam, or Marvels Mystery Oil. It will clean up the oil passages, and the lifters. How long did the parts sit before you used them? SPFI block and MPFI heads will not cause this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4RnrRick Posted December 8, 2006 Author Share Posted December 8, 2006 Frank - Thanks for the explaination. Yes, thats mostly what the sound, sounds like. Probably also has a hint of exhaust leak in there also. No, I did not replace or even remove the oil pump. I've only had the engine running for say 3 minutes total.... and thats not all at once. 15-20 minutes for it to go away - ugh..... I bought the donor subies, so I have no idea how long they sat. But I did fire up the donor motor (spfi block) before I started the project to make sure the bottom end was good. But I'm sure all oil passages got fulling drained in the assembly process... Its just that with other motors I've built (not subies) the oiling system primes itself pretty quickly. Good to hear that it could be something so simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 Officially according to subaru it can take up to an hour for lifter tick to go away after the engine has been dissasembled. Sometimes they tick, sometimes they don't. I always dead crank the engine till I see the oil-pressure guage start to rise before I put fire to the it. That said, it may NEVER completely go away if the lifters are worn, which fortunately isn't terribly common. It's usually the oil pump and seal, and sometimes the cam carrier o-ring that causes it. Usually the oil pump and seal are the worst offender though. If the engine hasn't been apart, then likely it always ticked, and probably will continue to do so until you adress the issue causing air bubbles in the oil. They rarely "bleed down" over time unless the lifters are already worn. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4RnrRick Posted December 8, 2006 Author Share Posted December 8, 2006 If the engine hasn't been apart, then likely it always ticked, and probably will continue to do so until you adress the issue causing air bubbles in the oil. They rarely "bleed down" over time unless the lifters are already worn.GD I just built the motor - so yes, its been apart. But I did not remove the oil pump, so I'm assuming thats okay since the donor motor (this short block) sounded nice and smooth. At lunch, I will go home and fire it up and let it run and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 I would say its most likely the rubber o-ring between the cam carriers and the heads. It took me a bit to get it right and keep it from falling out when I placed my cam carriers on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank B Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 When I bought my GL-10, it had sat for almost a year before I got it. Engine assembled, with oil in it. When i first started it, the tick was so loud it scared the crap out of me! After realizing what it was, I let it idle with a can of SeaFoam in the oil. After 15 minutes or so, the tick was gone. I ended up replacing the oil pump later anyway when I did the timing belts and water pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 Whats the big oily wet spot to the right on the picture, looks like its under the altenator? nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4RnrRick Posted December 8, 2006 Author Share Posted December 8, 2006 Whats the big oily wet spot to the right on the picture, looks like its under the altenator? nipper Thats just a oily timing cover.... see this car had a hole through the block when I got it so there was oil everywhere! Anyways at lunch I fired it up and let it idle...well about about 5 minutes its started to quite down - Then it blew a head gasket - SON OF A B!!!!!!!! Anyways I'm done with it. I just going to get it out of the garage and try to give away the subie parts cars. and then when I get the title for this one (Its in process through the DMV) then I'm just going to try to sell this one for $250 because it a pretty nice car and be done with it. ARGH - I's so pissed off right now! If your interested, I'm located 20 minutes South of Eugene, Oregon.... PM or Email me at RickB@engineer.com edit - guess I should say what the cars are! Could be a nice car with a new motor! $250 : 1990 GL-10 Wagon, AWD, Auto, Blow head gasket (high compression MPFI EA82) Junker parts cars! FREE: 1989 GL Wagon, D/R, Manual, no motor, Bad Body (tree fell on car) FREE: 1988 GL Wagon, D/R, Manual, no motor, Bad Body (Car rearended) + tons of Misc motor parts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgd73 Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 bad torques? There was engine noise, then HG gone.... bad deck clearance? dirty pistons on thinner hg than it came from? how was oil pressure? with all of the setup pretty much there, it is only a bit more work to get it correct. It is ashame you choose to give up, crap happens... That would be a nice common sense setup out of oem parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4RnrRick Posted December 8, 2006 Author Share Posted December 8, 2006 bad torques? I torqued everything with a torque wrench. and the head where put on at 55 ft lbs (not the 47 the book says) There was engine noise, then HG gone.... Yes there was engine noise (TOD) and it was getting quieter and then I seen the white smoke out the tail pipe. There is also water in the oil. how was oil pressure? It was half way up teh OEM gauge - looked fine to me. It is ashame you choose to give up, crap happens... I'm tired of dealing with it and got other projects I want to do....If the car was runnign I'm sure I could sell if for $1200-$1500....Actually I was kinda counting on that money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 What brand of intake manifold gakets did you use? How much water is in the oil? If it blew that hard, then you should be able to shoot water out of the radiator just cranking the engine over with the starter, and if it runs at all, it will run very, very poorly. If it's just some on the breather hoses, then that usually indicates bad intake gaskets. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodaka Rider Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 edit - guess I should say what the cars are! Could be a nice car with a new motor! $250 : 1990 GL-10 Wagon, AWD, Auto, Blow head gasket (high compression MPFI EA82) Junker parts cars! FREE: 1989 GL Wagon, D/R, Manual, no motor, Bad Body (tree fell on car) FREE: 1988 GL Wagon, D/R, Manual, no motor, Bad Body (Car rearended) + tons of Misc motor parts Rick: Andy (baccaruda) and I are both looking for D/R transmissions. He is coming through to Portland this weekend. Any possibility of a getting the transmissions from the 88 and 89? I know you're a couple hours south of Portland, but maybe something could be sorted out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prospeeder Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 hmm thats sucks...Did you have the heads milled properly for sure? Its odd it would just do that. My car sat for over a year and when i finally got it started the lifters were REALLY REALLY loud for days and now its quiet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayakertom Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 I had a similar experience with a spfi and new headgaskets and it did turn out to be the intake manifold gaskets, like GD suggests. I would drain oil for a long time, drain coolant, replace the intake gaskets, replace just the oil, disconnect the fuel pump fuse, take out spark plugs and rotor and do a compression test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4RnrRick Posted December 10, 2006 Author Share Posted December 10, 2006 Rick: Andy (baccaruda) and I are both looking for D/R transmissions. He is coming through to Portland this weekend. Any possibility of a getting the transmissions from the 88 and 89? I know you're a couple hours south of Portland, but maybe something could be sorted out? Sorry, but you HAVE to take the whole car.... all or none. If I don't find anyone that wants then, then I will just have to haul them away for scrap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joostvdw Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 could the smoke just be some watervapor? I say drive it around town a bit and check if the coolant level changes, and like GD and other have said, check the intake gaskets, they're known to fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumpy Posted December 10, 2006 Share Posted December 10, 2006 Do either of these have rear disc brakes? Rotors on my GL-10 are warped. Think it's the passenger side that did most of the salt collecting. Is the front and rear rotors the same? If so I may be able to get by with just the front. In which case htijohnson I think it is has a set closser. Thanks, Stumpy Junker parts cars! FREE: 1989 GL Wagon, D/R, Manual, no motor, Bad Body (tree fell on car) FREE: 1988 GL Wagon, D/R, Manual, no motor, Bad Body (Car rearended) + tons of Misc motor parts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 +1 for it not being a head gasket. Sounds more like intake manifold to me....and they're much more likely to go out than a head gasket...unless you totally F#$%ed them up on installation, but I'm assuming that's not it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subaru_dude Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 it really sucks living way out here. I NEED AN EFFIN PARTS CAR DANG IT!!!!! and yeah, sounds like intake manifold gaskets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 it really sucks living way out here. I NEED AN EFFIN PARTS CAR DANG IT!!!!! and yeah, sounds like intake manifold gaskets. wouldnt a parts car that was a Subaru be far more helpful then an Effin car (what is that dutch) :-p nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodaka Rider Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 So, if anyone grabs the '88 or '89 and does not need the tranny, please let me know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subaru_dude Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 wouldnt a parts car that was a Subaru be far more helpful then an Effin car (what is that dutch) :-p nipper no... I don't need a parts car for my soob. it's in perfect shape!!! but my Effin car really needs an effin transmission Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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