CNY_Dave Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 In general, handling isn't horrible. Quick lane-change today (think accident-avoidance maneuver) was a bit ugly. I mean, a lot worse than my old '92 ranger pickup. Dug in with a lot of roll on the primary turn, fishtailed pretty bad on the straighten-out portion, and she wagged a few times after that. Granted, I have Dunlop Graspic DS2s on there, not fabulous dry-road tires, but maybe the struts are gettin' weak? TP is up to spec, just had it aligned. I know its not a bloody porsche, but it did seem a bit worse than I'd expect. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtdash Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Does your LL Bean have VDC? if not then maybe it's a Subaru handling trait. From this month's issue of a 'leading consumer mag' on their road test of the new Legacy 2.5i: "If a driver enters a corner too quickly and lifts off the throttle, the Legacy's tail can slide out and could cause the car to spin. Stability control should correct this problem, but it is not available on the trim level of our base 2.5i. ........It loses major points for handling that gets tricky in emergency maneuvers. " It's a newer gen then yours, so I don't claim to know if the suspensions are the same. And this is a pet peeve of mine w/Subaru...as not everyone is a skilled driver: "Electronic stability control helps, but is only an option on higher-end versions and is not available on our base test car. " Td Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 Does your LL Bean have VDC? if not then maybe it's a Subaru handling trait.From this month's issue of a 'leading consumer mag' on their road test of the new Legacy 2.5i: "If a driver enters a corner too quickly and lifts off the throttle, the Legacy's tail can slide out and could cause the car to spin. Stability control should correct this problem, but it is not available on the trim level of our base 2.5i. ........It loses major points for handling that gets tricky in emergency maneuvers. " It's a newer gen then yours, so I don't claim to know if the suspensions are the same. And this is a pet peeve of mine w/Subaru...as not everyone is a skilled driver: "Electronic stability control helps, but is only an option on higher-end versions and is not available on our base test car. " Td No VDC. And yeah, had I been a n00b, that would have been a spin into the ditch. Throttle was neutral, though (just enough to maintain speed, about 65mph). I know stiffer struts (firmer damping) would help a lot (that's why my ranger handled insanely well for a pickup, man could that thing carve an on-ramp), just wondering if this is subie-normal, or are my struts shot at 5 years/60Kmiles? Wonder if the 6cyl makes this better or worse? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidedown Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Check the end-links on the rear sway bar. When one of mine went I noticed significantly greater "rolling" in corners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Id start by checking the sway bars and endlinks, make sure nothing is broken or loose there. How does she fare in the 'bounce on the bumper' test for the struts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster2 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Put on a set of KYB struts on all four corners. You will be happy with the improved handling and control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I have Dunlop Graspic DS2s on therethis is out of my realm of expertise...if i have any...but snow tires do suck for most anything else but driving in slick conditions. i haven't "tested" the wife's OBS (the impreza hatch body style), but it seems to handle very well and doesn't roll/sway much at all. i doubt your existing struts are "bad", i think some minor suspension upgrades may help. hopefully others will pipe up and help with the specifics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 I do have to confess I have not practiced with this car as much as I would like. Usually, I get to know exactly what the cars limits are fairly quickly but I've been slothing off. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I have the DS2's on my '94 (so they're the smaller ones, like P185/70R14), they're awesome in the snow with deep tread but yes on dry pavement esp if it is above freezing they feel very squishy and I'm sure don't help in an emergency maneuver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I have the DS2's i'm not a fan of my snow tires, but man they are awesome in the nasty stuff. i'd be interested to hear how your non-snow tires work in the spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 i'm not a fan of my snow tires, but man they are awesome in the nasty stuff. i'd be interested to hear how your non-snow tires work in the spring. You mean those nasty stockers? Suck in the rain, I'll tell you that much. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamal Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 "If a driver enters a corner too quickly and lifts off the throttle, the Legacy's tail can slide out and could cause the car to spin. Stability control should correct this problem, but it is not available on the trim level of our base 2.5i. ........It loses major points for handling that gets tricky in emergency maneuvers. " Td That will happen in ANY car. A sharp lift while cornering unloads the back wheels. It seems that people are such terrible drivers that the manufactures have to tune suspension so that the car won't even turn. I would blame A. the snow tires B. the struts C. you. Power is the best way to get these cars straightened out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 That will happen in ANY car. A sharp lift while cornering unloads the back wheels. It seems that people are such terrible drivers that the manufactures have to tune suspension so that the won't even turn. I would blame A. the snow tires B. the struts C. you. Power is the best way to get these cars straightened out. "C" is ineed part of it- had my truck so long, I could tell you very well exactly what it could or could not do, and how fast, and how far out the assend would slide, etc. The sube I've had only since October. Need more practice in the subie! I've gotten lotsa snow practice, not much dry-pavement slaloming yet. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzam Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 Consumer Reports magazine has always said that Subarus have a tendency to swing out the rear in their emergency lane change manuvers unless it has VDC. They say that it happens more if the throttle has been "let up" causing the rear to try to catch up to the front. :-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 Just like us dirt bike guys say- "When in doubt, gas it!" Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 right Dave warm in hot out drive off the apex trailing throttle oversteer is not kewl Guess I'm glad my 03 is a VDC. mini rant and hijack why does Subaru turn off the VDC when the CEL is on? (from the manual) Sorry I'll start my own post on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnlyfnd Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I'd say the snows have a lot to do with it. You could do a bounce test on the struts, but I'd replace the rear sway no matter what. Everyone who does says it is a huge difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 i'm not a fan of my snow tires, but man they are awesome in the nasty stuff. i'd be interested to hear how your non-snow tires work in the spring.I have the DS2's For the '94 the stockers are relatively new futura I think they are, I think it's the pepboys 4 tires $99 special; they were on there when I bought the '94 last summer. They seem to be ok, they seem a little sloppy though, like side to side movement wise. The '96 has bridgestone I think for the non-winter tires, those seem to be ok. '00obw has pirelli p400 they seem fairly good but one has a separated belt or something messed up with it that if I put it on the front it makes the car shake like crazy above 50mph but is fine on the rear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamal Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I'd say the snows have a lot to do with it. You could do a bounce test on the struts, but I'd replace the rear sway no matter what. Everyone who does says it is a huge difference. A bigger rear swaybar makes the car more likely to snap around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 This is kicking around the outback board, and it looks like they are really sensative to tire pressure. 31 psi seems to be the magic number. Go higher then that and everything gets scary. If you feel like reading 10 pages of posts http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11267&perpage=20&highlight=dangerous&pagenumber=1 One guy did extensive testing with dead weight in the car and air pressure and 31psi may resolve it. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnlyfnd Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 I thought a rear sway wouldhelp. Wouldn't it reduce the roll and therefore make the car more stable and predictable. You don't have all the body roll throwing the car all over the place... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 If its an emergency manuver, it would be air pressure and roll bar (and bushings). If it some wierdness in a straight line, its air presure it seems. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamal Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 The same amount of weight transfers regardless of suspension stiffness. A bigger rear swaybar means more of that weight transfers to the rear tire, and that it happens more quickly. That makes the rear more likely to step out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY_Dave Posted January 25, 2008 Author Share Posted January 25, 2008 The same amount of weight transfers regardless of suspension stiffness. A bigger rear swaybar means more of that weight transfers to the rear tire, and that it happens more quickly. That makes the rear more likely to step out. And firmer compression damping will slow the roll rate, which will lessen the total amount of roll. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamal Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 not particularly. Springs and swaybars almost exclusively limit roll. If you have a way, way, way overdamped setup, than yes they can do that. Auto-xers do it in the classes where you can change the struts but not the springs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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