Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

front diff locked open rear


  • Please log in to reply
31 replies to this topic

#1 Scott in Bellingham

Scott in Bellingham

    Lets go wheelin!!

  • Members
  • 3,606 posts
  • Bellingham

Posted 06 October 2005 - 08:53 AM

anyone ever run a locked/welded front diff and a open /stock rear diff??,


I was talkin with a buddy at work who owns a toyota pickup with air lockers , he says he prefers to lock the front , not the back , says if he could only lock one end it would be the front , any experiance with this? , if so on a strictly trail rig you could weld up the front and put a LSD on rear,

SJR

#2 archemitis

archemitis

    guy smiley

  • Members
  • 3,554 posts
  • the big minnie

Posted 06 October 2005 - 09:04 AM

ya, most people only lock the rear cuz its alot easier on a subaru. but... all of your weight is up front in a toyota, they are realy light in the back end, so theres not as much traction back there.
with a cast iron block, and big tranny, and xfer case, and front diff... lotsa weight.

my cousin runs a street car with locked front diff, welded. its harder to turn, and squirlier in the rain, but its great traction.
i wouldnt do it on an offroad subaru tho, one blip of the throttle with wheels turned would snap axles like... well, subaru axles.

#3 singletrack

singletrack

    EA Abuser

  • Members
  • 536 posts
  • Palisade, Colorado

Posted 06 October 2005 - 09:19 AM

If you're climbing anything that requires a locker, most of the weight of the car will be shifted to the back wheels. A front locker / rear open would be rather pointless IMO.

#4 iluvdrt

iluvdrt

    to lift, or not to lift

  • Members
  • 798 posts
  • j-ville nc

Posted 06 October 2005 - 11:16 AM

anyone ever run a locked/welded front diff and a open /stock rear diff??,


I was talkin with a buddy at work who owns a toyota pickup with air lockers , he says he prefers to lock the front , not the back , says if he could only lock one end it would be the front , any experiance with this? , if so on a strictly trail rig you could weld up the front and put a LSD on rear,

SJR


Well it is nicer to have it in the front, HOWEVER, in most other offroaders the front hubs "unlock" to prevent blown axles. Subarus dont. You will not be able to turn, and you will blow axles like its cool.

#5 mudduck

mudduck

    Subaru Nut

  • Members
  • 703 posts
  • Asheboro NC

Posted 06 October 2005 - 04:14 PM

Don't lock the front end!! Leave it open. Haveing a locked up front end sucks. You will hardly be able to steer and the front end won't be able to handle the stress. Had a 85 Toy with lockers front and rear. The front locker didn't stay in very long after I purchased the truck.

#6 MorganM

MorganM

    Do you Subaru?

  • Members
  • 8,390 posts
  • TwinCities

Posted 06 October 2005 - 04:16 PM

Don't lock the front end!! Leave it open. Haveing a locked up front end sucks. You will hardly be able to steer and the front end won't be able to handle the stress. Had a 85 Toy with lockers front and rear. The front locker didn't stay in very long after I purchased the truck.


Yeah; everyone I wheel with that has front/rear lockers only enguages the front one when they absolutly need it. Otherwise its more trouble than it's worth. It's there for good reasons but those good reasons aren't always there! :)

#7 soobmater

soobmater

    Got Mud?

  • Members
  • 1,668 posts
  • South Bend

Posted 08 October 2005 - 01:59 AM

so for the serious offroader, would locked rear and lsd up front be the best? I would think that if you locked the front diff, it would eat axles like candy.

#8 mudduck

mudduck

    Subaru Nut

  • Members
  • 703 posts
  • Asheboro NC

Posted 08 October 2005 - 08:37 AM

I would just lock the rear, if you feel the need for a front locker, go with a arb.

#9 Ratty2Austin

Ratty2Austin

    have tools, will fix

  • Members
  • 2,385 posts
  • West Coast USA

Posted 08 October 2005 - 09:10 AM

you could also do an LSD up front, and then lock or LSD the rear.. that way you dont over stress the front, but still get a slight added traction advantage :D

#10 stinky

stinky

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 161 posts
  • Austin, Texas

Posted 10 October 2005 - 06:51 AM

Something I've been toying with the idea of, mount a second handbrake lever next to the original and have one for each front wheel, if you put a wheel in the air reef up it's handbrake and the power should go to the grounded wheel as it's suddenly the easier wheel to turn. Jam it down again as soon as you're back on the ground.

#11 Scott in Bellingham

Scott in Bellingham

    Lets go wheelin!!

  • Members
  • 3,606 posts
  • Bellingham

Posted 10 October 2005 - 07:55 AM

Something I've been toying with the idea of, mount a second handbrake lever next to the original and have one for each front wheel, if you put a wheel in the air reef up it's handbrake and the power should go to the grounded wheel as it's suddenly the easier wheel to turn. Jam it down again as soon as you're back on the ground.



I have this setup on the back, its a turning Cutter brake works of the hydrolics, works ok , wish I had more leverage as it takes a lot of presure to stop that wheel in the air from spinin, I would like to do the same on the front as you mentioned, would be a simple install SJR

#12 Numbchux

Numbchux

    EJ conversion addict

  • Members
  • 5,991 posts
  • Duluth, MN

Posted 10 October 2005 - 09:16 AM

I've mounted a second handle, but haven't had time to try to hook up the cables. I've thought about it, but just haven't had the time. and am still working things out to get the rig set up how I want....

anyway, it wouldn't be too great in the really hairy obstacles, like a really technical hillclimb where momentum is key, where you'd be concentrating on your line, etc. but if you got hung up on a log or something, you could easily pull yourself the last few inches over it, instead of taking a bigger run at it.

I've found that the wheeling I do, a little posi all the time in the rear will probably help me more than dual ebrake...

#13 Sweet82

Sweet82

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 3,266 posts
  • Salt Lake City

Posted 11 October 2005 - 10:45 AM

I've done that on Summer.

Works well compared to nothing.
Who knows how it would compare to a front locker?
Until someone welds one or invents one we may never know...

http://www.ultimates...&cat=500&page=1

I have a couple pics on it.
Glenn
82 SubaruHummer--"Summer"
84 GL--"Mad Max"
01 Forester

#14 nipper

nipper

    Semi Elite Master of the

  • Members
  • 17,557 posts
  • Long Island NY

Posted 11 October 2005 - 12:34 PM

Thats how the VW baja bugs would do it. They had both parking brake cables going to the parking brake so it was easy to do.


nipper

#15 Numbchux

Numbchux

    EJ conversion addict

  • Members
  • 5,991 posts
  • Duluth, MN

Posted 11 October 2005 - 03:33 PM

Thats how the VW baja bugs would do it. They had both parking brake cables going to the parking brake so it was easy to do.


nipper


so do we, so it is

#16 soobme

soobme

    Subaru Master

  • Members
  • 1,871 posts
  • Medford OR

Posted 12 October 2005 - 04:13 AM

Geting a "Turning Brake" set and installing it would work even better. It gets plumbed into the hyd. brake sys. so it has more holding power with less efort;) U can get 'em from any buggy suply house for around $75.

#17 Gloyale

Gloyale

    It's a sickness

  • Members
  • 9,038 posts
  • Corvallis, OR PNW

Posted 25 April 2008 - 11:07 PM

Resurecting this old thread to start a discussion about a new topic.

I have just installed the dual ebrake mod on my GL. It works awesome for the front, although it won't completely lock a wheel. It holds enough to transfer power though. I drove up a set of offset ramps, in FWD with one front wheel in the air. 1WD! Awesome:grin: :headbang:



Now for the new topic. Trying to come up with a way to lock the rear seperately, I though of a new idea. It was suggested above in this thread some type of hydraulic locker. It then occured to me that subaru equipped all their manual transmission cars with hydraulic brake holders in the form of the Hill Holder!!!

So my Idea is to mount and plumb 2 hill holder valves near the rear propotioning valves. Plumbed in down stream of the proportioning valve, one to each wheel. Mounted at an upward angle so it would work on downhills. Rig the cables to a set of handles in the cab. NOT connected at all to the clutch activated hill holder. It could be installed the same on either manuals or automatics.

To use, simply set the brakes with the brake pedal, pull the cable for the choosen wheel, and release brakes. Only the one rear wheel locked by the activated cable would stay locked, and you could crawl over you're obstacle.

Thoughs, Ideas, :Flame: for reviving the dead?

#18 nipper

nipper

    Semi Elite Master of the

  • Members
  • 17,557 posts
  • Long Island NY

Posted 25 April 2008 - 11:33 PM

There are simpler ways using line locks.

nipper

#19 Gloyale

Gloyale

    It's a sickness

  • Members
  • 9,038 posts
  • Corvallis, OR PNW

Posted 25 April 2008 - 11:37 PM

There are simpler ways using line locks.

nipper


That is basically all the hill holder is. And they are cheap and readily available, with cable and all.

All the Aftermarket hydraulic brake locks I've seen require rerouting the hydraulics to the unit in the cab.

I though this way the units could install right near the proportioning valve and minimal new plumbing required.

#20 nipper

nipper

    Semi Elite Master of the

  • Members
  • 17,557 posts
  • Long Island NY

Posted 25 April 2008 - 11:50 PM

Just hill holders dont work well when they oriented in reverse. i can tell you personally they get a bit confused, Try backing down a hill with one in reverse after a stop, its not a smooth transition.

nipper

#21 Gloyale

Gloyale

    It's a sickness

  • Members
  • 9,038 posts
  • Corvallis, OR PNW

Posted 25 April 2008 - 11:58 PM

Just hill holders dont work well when they oriented in reverse. i can tell you personally they get a bit confused, Try backing down a hill with one in reverse after a stop, its not a smooth transition.

nipper


That's only an issue because it's tied to clutch.
My setup would not have the added hill holders tied to the clutch at all. In fact my GL is a 4EAT automatic. They would be hand controled by handles mounted int he cab. I have a sweet set of vintage Campangnolo road bike brake handles I want to use. So, they would not be used at all during normal driving. Only activated when I want by use of the handles.

I would mount the hill holder valves themselves at about a 20 degree upward angle, so they would work even if I was nose down stuck on an obstacle.

#22 nipper

nipper

    Semi Elite Master of the

  • Members
  • 17,557 posts
  • Long Island NY

Posted 26 April 2008 - 12:02 AM

well no locking the front end, that can cause nightmare handling issues.

thats just for the originator of the thread.

Which sooby are we concerned with? Does it have rear parking brakes? You can use those cables for the same things like VW's used to do.


nipper

#23 testy

testy

    Eat, Live, Breath Subaru

  • Members
  • 265 posts
  • Port Moody, BC(Vancouver)

Posted 26 April 2008 - 12:13 AM

Something I've been toying with the idea of, mount a second handbrake lever next to the original and have one for each front wheel, if you put a wheel in the air reef up it's handbrake and the power should go to the grounded wheel as it's suddenly the easier wheel to turn. Jam it down again as soon as you're back on the ground.


this is a cool idea.

#24 merkatroid

merkatroid

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 51 posts
  • Phoenix

Posted 26 April 2008 - 12:20 AM

this is a cool idea.


I just thought that I would add that...Porsche uses this on its Cayenne. It uses the abs unit to lock and unlock individual wheels to transfer the power through each diff to the wheel on the ground. It works really well and would be cool to use turning brake controls to make your own version. A welded rear diff and turning brake controls for the front in theory would be a fun experiment.
They also have a "extreme off road package" that has hydraulic decoupling sway bars to help articulation.

#25 Scott in Bellingham

Scott in Bellingham

    Lets go wheelin!!

  • Members
  • 3,606 posts
  • Bellingham

Posted 26 April 2008 - 12:24 AM

wow I totaly forgot about this thread,

heres a cutter brake used on sand rails they work awesome for turning and braking . if there was a way to get more leverage out of this it should work, I had one in my first subaru but couldnt get enough force to keep that wheel in the air from spinning, since then have found that a welded rear diff is the way to go


Posted Image




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users