January 19, 200521 yr ok so after much debate (with my self mostly) i think im going to lift my ea81 powered 79 wagon. my first plan was a normal lift using gen 2 rear running gear and what not. but now that ive been thinking more im going to just solid axel it. so what kind of axels would you recomend, here are my choices toyota 1985 solids. suzki sami axels or shortend dana 44s (not rely an option since there to expensive as for power it will be ea81, dr 4speed out of 81 brat. tcase from 720 pu, im going to go for 31+ tires and will be using leaf springs...
January 19, 200521 yr I would love to have a solid axle subaru. You could bash around and over anything. That would be sweet to have a 79 lifted suby. Probably one of a kind.
January 19, 200521 yr Would independant suspention not crawl around in the trails better that a solid rear axle? I seems like independant setup would just have more vercatility vs. solid, but maby that just me, but aren't hummers independant?
January 19, 200521 yr plus hummers are monsters.. it would be interesting to see a solid axled subie,though i my self would stick with independent.but that's me.
January 19, 200521 yr I think you'd have more travel with the leafs on a solid axle. Our indpendent set up is limited. Just add leafs to the torsen bar and call it done! Glenn, 82 SubaruHummer 01 Forester
January 19, 200521 yr Just go toyota axles..... They are the strongest for there width and with 31" you should have ZERO breakage...... Danas would also work but more expensive since you have to narrow them. and sami's start to have problems around a 31-32" tires.....
January 19, 200521 yr Hummer's have a unimog axle setup and really dont have a lot of travel / articulation. Glenn is on the money. Way more travel / articulation out of leafs with solid axles vs. our wussy independent suspension. Even if you increased the travel dramaticly the DOJs and CVs only articulate sofar before they eat themselves. As for parts I'd use what you have available. See what local junkyards have. Get on your local 4WD message boards and look for guys getting rid of their axles when they upgrade. Should find some scream'n deals. I'm in the middle of aquiring solid axle upgrade parts
January 19, 200521 yr Hummer's have a unimog axle setup and really dont have a lot of travel / articulation. BC Hydro our main power company is selling their 2 Mercedes Unimogs, don't know when or what auction yet but I checked the one out that was in town for a while. What a sweet setup HUGE ground clearance! I'm going to look for pics.
January 19, 200521 yr I'm actually leaning towards samurai axles for that wagon. They would suit the smaller gen 1s better. Samurai axles would be fine with 31s since your wagon probably isnt even breaking the 2000lb barrier and you've only got 70-odd hp. Plus, the samurai case is small and divorced and will mate flawlessly with the zuk axles. The shaft from the tranny to the tcase can be mix and matched from samurai and subaru parts because the u-joint size is the same. The nissan case is not an ideal choice for using a solid front axle. The front axle will be offset whereas the front output of the nissan case is centered. It can be made to work, but a complete sammy setup would be my choice. Plus you've got gearing options with the sammy case. 86 and up are the strongest sammy axles, but pre 85 axles have the lowest gearing.
January 19, 200521 yr I'm actually leaning towards samurai axles for that wagon. They would suit the smaller gen 1s better. Samurai axles would be fine with 31s since your wagon probably isnt even breaking the 2000lb barrier and you've only got 70-odd hp. Plus, the samurai case is small and divorced and will mate flawlessly with the zuk axles. The shaft from the tranny to the tcase can be mix and matched from samurai and subaru parts because the u-joint size is the same. The nissan case is not an ideal choice for using a solid front axle. The front axle will be offset whereas the front output of the nissan case is centered. It can be made to work, but a complete sammy setup would be my choice. Plus you've got gearing options with the sammy case. 86 and up are the strongest sammy axles, but pre 85 axles have the lowest gearing. Sammy front axles start to have troubles at 31-32" when they are welded/locked in the front and the guy driving them beats the **** out of them on grippy rock. I've seen guys that don't mash things running 34s open diff on the front without probs, and I've seen guys breaking them on 31s, but they are the guys that put the pedal to the floor and need an exo to protect them when they inevitably put it on its roof or side (or tailgate )
January 19, 200521 yr Would independant suspention not crawl around in the trails better that a solid rear axle? I seems like independant setup would just have more vercatility vs. solid, but maby that just me In theory, yes, but, unfortunately, the Joints in the drivetrain can't take much more flex than they get stock. I think it would be VERY cool, to set up something that mounted the rear subframe on leaf springs. That plan has alot of flaws too, I know, but if there was a way to do it, to keep them somewhat independant, but then let the whole assembly, diff and all, pivot in really tricky situations would be WAY cool!
January 19, 200521 yr So what you guys are saying, is that with independant suspention, when you need the travel for whatever obsticles you may encounter, lacks in travel, because of being limited by the short drive axle. Therefore makeing a leafspring and solid axle system supeior because of more travel and beafier. I have seen many pictures of the toyota convertion done on subby, and it looks like the least complex way to go about real off roading. Unffortunitly for me, theres just something that gives me that warm fuzzy fealing in my body when I look at some crazy independant suspention, when I look under a car. So I guess my biggest question would be, who has tryed to get ultimate travel out of their independant system. One person posted some pictures of a couple lited brats (one being extremly well done) and I would love to see that thing up against some solid axel subys.
January 19, 200521 yr The best set up for the Gen1 is the narrower Nissan axle from the same Nissan 720 P/U. Mount a diff up front and run IFS. That way you can run the Nissan transfer case and have zero problems. I have histerical travel in the rear and I am working on a front mod that will increase travel in the front with the independent. Toyota or Sami is the only good way to go for solid front and rear. Scott's Brat is well put together. His H-6 has more power than my built EA81. However, I have superior gearing and far better travel. We can both get to the same places. But he'll have to work alot harder to get there.
January 19, 200521 yr Go with toyota 8" rear axle. They are bellit proof and easy to work on (set up just like a ford 9") With a ea moter and 31 you will never have to worry about breaking it, I have seen 38" tall tires and build v-6 used with these axles on some preety tough rocks and they hold up well. I never had a problem on my 4cyl toyota, even when it was locked up 4:88 gaers and 35" on it and I ran that truck hard
January 19, 200521 yr hey i have toy. axles put under my subie with a nissan t case. i would go with the toy their much stonger. that way you could put big tires on it
January 19, 200521 yr Lots of folks compete in UROC with "stock" Toyota axles. They are solid! My .02 Glenn 82 SubaruHummer 01 Forester
January 19, 200521 yr well, they do get upgraded birfields (CV joints in the front axle), called longfields, profields or smurfields etc.
January 20, 200521 yr Author well ill be going solid rear for shure.. as for the front i like the way the independant feals when driving fast offroad. i cant belive how slow people have to drive with solid axels. but im not shure i want to go with the subaru setup up front..... qman i think your brat has the best of both worlds. here is my problem. i can only get 4.44 gears up front for a subaru diff. i want to go lower. so that i can relly crawl. my buddy with an 85 yota with 5.?? gears and 33s is just barrly making it on some climbs around here and i want to be at least that good. i also want better stearing gear box tierod ends ect. also larg brakes. all of which will take some more extensive mods. so i think i have 2 choices now if im staying independant front then nissan rear axel nissan tcase qman type setup on front......(w gen 2 crossmember and stuff) or or solid ill run toyota axels and the apropriate tcase(with right outputs) ill have to do more looking to find wich one will work the best. thanks for all the input its much apresheated( even if i cant spell. sorry i didnt learn to read or right till 6th grade and it dost look like ive learned that much since then....
January 20, 200521 yr With the width of the '79 the 'yota axles will be too wide. The Nissan will be the right width but the spring perches will have to be moved as it is. The width, if memory still works, of the Nissan is 50". The 'yota's come in at 54" and 58". Factory Nissan gear sets come in 4.37/1 and 4.63/1. I am not a big fan of either axle but the Nissan fits this application better. Besides, it will look kind of rediculous with the entire tire sticking out of the fenderwell. FYI, the Nissan was too narrow for the Gen2 Brat. The spring perches matched up perfectly though. I had to space it out to make it match the front track.
January 20, 200521 yr Author qman. the rear axel in your brat is a ??(nissan with spacers to move the wheels out? ) just trying to get it strait. yea i dont want it to look like a tar(half truck half car) any more then it has to so i for shure dont want the tire sticking out more then half its width anyway im going to do some looking and will post when i have a plane more nailed down qman, do you know of any other gear ratios that are avalible for the r160 diff? other then subaru stock gear ratios of 4.1 and 4.44?
January 20, 200521 yr That's about it. I used the R180 in the front from the Nissan as well. I don't know for sure what gears are available aftermarket it either.
January 21, 200521 yr Author oh ok thanks that will make the process of finding a doner vehicle easyer. thanks... brian
January 22, 200521 yr What are you using for Engine again....???? If it were me, Here is What I would Do in a Gen One car..... Go with an EJ-18 Engine, 5 speed Hi-Lo trans, Nissan T-case Down to Nissan R-180 front with 4:37/67 gears and LSD and Nissan Rear to Match.... You'll end up about 10" taller You can run up to a 33 inch tire on this configuration No problem, Get somewhere between 20-28 mpg on the Hwy, and you will have a Very capable Trail Rig....... I'll know very soon just how much Frame horn trimming is Needed to Stuff a 2.2 motor into a Gen One..... If you can Fab, Stick one of these in...It will be that much Better....... If you can't do all the Fab work, I know a Guy thats Done a Few..... and Getting ready to build 2 More...... Have Fun, John
January 22, 200521 yr you guys are givin alot of good info out. thanks =] heres why hummers arent cool. they flex enough, but theres no warning when they will tip, they get to a point, then theres no saving it. we have all seen bigass rigs, with the same size tires damn near drive off an incline ramp thingy... well this video tells it all. http://www.big-boys.com/articles/hummerroll.html solid axles! all the way!
January 22, 200521 yr You do know when they are going to tip, that guy was just a moron. You feel the suspension start to unload at the top and you stop going forward. With a flexy vehicle you will notice sooner but the suspension is spongy and once it starts unloading you're on your way over anyways... Theres no real difference in the end, your vehicle will still have the same maximum angle it can handle.
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