ezapar Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 I thought this was called the Ultimate Subaru Message Board, not the you need to buy a Toyota because a subaru can't hack it board. Lemme tell you something Mr. CEO. . . You've been on here for 7 months. I've forgotten more posts that I've made about offroading Soobs than you've made period. You don't have any idea of what I've done to promote Soobs and their offroad capabilities. You have no idea how many times I've gone to bat for our little cars. No idea at all. If I end my statement with "that's my 2 cents" then you should respect that as my opinion and not tell me I should be ashamed for how I feel. Did you bother to read the last sentence of my post? You should be ashamed or yourself for being so absolutley greedy and only thinking of the USMB as a way to make $. How many times have you gone out wheeling with members of this board? Or how many of them have you taken the time to meet other than to sell them something? How many times have YOU vollunteered your time and garage and tools to help someone get their rig ready to wheel? How many lift kits have you installed for free? How many times have you gone out of your way to help anybody on this board without getting paid. How many emails and pms have you answered in the name of honest and informative advice having to do with offroading Soobs? I've forgotten how many times I have done all of the above. You're the one who when I asked for vollunteers to help with making a flyer for the WCSS7 (which I 100% vollunteered my own time and gas and printer and cell phone bill and god knows what else to put together) that said you'd only do it if I put a link to your business. . . Want me to go on? No, you should be ashamed of yourself Shady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothoncanvas Posted October 20, 2005 Author Share Posted October 20, 2005 hey guys, thanks again for all the feedback... I think I'll let the forester do what it was built for - the road. However, some interesting news came my way. A girl i know is selling an older Geo Tracker with 4wd for 500 dollars. as far as i know, there are no major problems with it... she just really wants to get rid of it. I realise that these are not nearly as strong running as say a Jeep or Land Cruiser (or probably even some of your guys' cars), but with the cost of the vehicle, it should be fun to beat up. Plus i've seen some videos of them putting on some pretty serious performances, though those most likely have thousands of dollars in mods. Hopefully she was truthfull with the price, and if i go out there and find out that she told me it was 4x4 and it's not... i'll be more than upset. If fact i might start screaming at her . thanks again guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soobme Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 [EDIT] I SHOULD have exluded Zap & Q-man from my last post. U guys can say WHAT EVER U want about Subs off road! I know that U have WAY more exp. wheelin' 'em than I do. [/EDIT] :mybad: (we need a smiley for that) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonwingsubaru Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 if you get the tracker i would definatly put a rollcage in it, since everyone ive every seen doing anything ore than mild stuff offroad has flipped them over. there is 1 guy around here with a lifted samari, ide say about a 4 ince lift and running i think it was 31's or 33's and he cant even go around a corner faster than 25 without it trying to lift 1 side off the pavement, basically i think that they just have a really crappy center of gravity.and as for my sooby while i never got around to lifting it it did ok offroad, but my old 89 2wd astrovan with a 5 inch lift and 33's AT could go through way more stuff than my sooby can, though it did try to tip alot lol, never flipped it though. for the practical offroader though ide say the wrangler as well since there are tons of repair and reinforceing stuff available for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archemitis Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 hey guys, thanks again for all the feedback... I think I'll let the forester do what it was built for - the road. However, some interesting news came my way. A girl i know is selling an older Geo Tracker with 4wd for 500 dollars. as far as i know, there are no major problems with it... she just really wants to get rid of it. I realise that these are not nearly as strong running as say a Jeep or Land Cruiser (or probably even some of your guys' cars), but with the cost of the vehicle, it should be fun to beat up. Plus i've seen some videos of them putting on some pretty serious performances, though those most likely have thousands of dollars in mods. Hopefully she was truthfull with the price, and if i go out there and find out that she told me it was 4x4 and it's not... i'll be more than upset. If fact i might start screaming at her . thanks again guys. trackers will kick some rump roast too. im not a subaru guy, im a car guy, i like cars(including trucks). theres no real reason to stick with something just cuz you picked that one brand, and you have to stick with it. id never be caught dead owning a ford, but other than that, its all pretty good stuff. and everything has its place. you could make a subaru do what a lifted *insert truck brand here* but it would be a subaru body with runing gear from *insert truck brand here* it would deffinately take more than an A A lift and some AA wheels. =x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qman Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 trackers will kick some rump roast too. im not a subaru guy, im a car guy, i like cars(including trucks). theres no real reason to stick with something just cuz you picked that one brand, and you have to stick with it. id never be caught dead owning a ford, but other than that, its all pretty good stuff. and everything has its place. you could make a subaru do what a lifted *insert truck brand here* but it would be a subaru body with runing gear from *insert truck brand here* it would deffinately take more than an A A lift and some AA wheels. =x Guess some people are just stubborn. Myself for instance. I have put some serious miles offroading Subaru's. I have made some very extreme modifications to said Subaru's to make them do the things I wanted them to do. I have helped make some pretty huge advancements in our end of the sport. That being said, and very well documented, I will add my .02 worth. The WOW! factor goes along ways. But, when the sun goes down at the end of the day it still won't keep up with most of the true stock 4X's in the world. Suspension travel, gearing, available aftermarket parts, the list goes on. The Hatch Patrol has become famous the world over. We have hopefully lead the way to making Subaru's accepted offroad. Here's my dilemna, I know I have one of the most capable Subaru's in offroad existance. But, what has it taken to get that title? Alot of money, time, creativity, more time and even more money. Now, the dicsussion will go, "Is that really a Subaru now?" It still has a Subaru Brat body. It still has a Subaru motor and tranny, the front brakes are still Subaru. The Australians call my rig a "bitsa". I don't have issue with that. It's true, it's a bit of this and a bit of that. The average person can not build a rig like mine. The average person can not wheel a rig like mine. The average person can take a stock 'yota or Jeep and have a good time offroad without getting into trouble. As far as some other peoples opinions go... you need to figure out who has applied knowledge, who can build the products they sell, who has actual trail knowledge, who is not a spoiled little rich kid, you get the idea I am sure. I don't think disclaimers need to be written as to whom's opinion is better than someone elses. Reputation will work the bugs out. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to read through the B.S.(sorry Scott, not a reference to you) LOL I love wheelin' Subes. I have made some great friends because of wheelin' Subes. Don't stop wheelin' Subes. But, let's keep it real and know where the fun ends and the fantasies start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tailgatewagon Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 um i wouldnt spend the money on the tracker...... its basicaly a subaru without the subaru advantages... what you want is a cheep 4x4 toyota pickup. or subaru hatch. dont bother with the 85-89 subys. unless there a hatch. if you build a hatch. do this follow what zap and eric do with theres not shure off all the mods but i know its LSD-(or welded) welded is much better and cheep an AUZ lift From PK, trust me i would only spend my money on a pk lift... and ive built 2 lifts from scratch and had a pk lift. then get some little swampers.... thats the cheep and probably best way... if you do a toy pickup. do this buy a solid axle toy. put the rear springs in the front.(you will have to fab a longer front driveline. easy if you have a welder) more on that if you need use dubble mazda springs in the rear. no need for new drivline only move the front hangers forward... and buy 3 subys worth of tires(38x14.5 sx's ) and you will have a toy with 3 feet or so of travil and will be able to go in snow real snow... anyway think about what you like to do....... personaly i would do the hatch. because i like to rally the loging roads and whatnot. ive had both(87 dr 5speed 27in mudtireds subaru, and a toy like the one i described... and i like the subaru beacuse i like to go fast. .... anyway before it gets longer....... grate luck and either way you decide to go let us know i like seing pix and what not....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezapar Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 I have to argue that a Hatch on 27/9.50 Swampers is a match for just about anything in the snow. We (the HP) find this out every year as we pass the big trucks who've given up as we head into deeper snow. My favorite memory is of dragging a Cherokee with 33 inch bear claws out of being stuck several times just to get him back down the trail. We easily menouvered around while he flailed. My other favorite memory is coming down the trail to find a group of 4Xs (toyotas included) blocking the path cuz they'd given up. Before they could move, I drove into the ditch to get around them, out of the ditch, and on down the trail. BIG CHEERS from the group of amazed people gathered. I was on tall 13 inch snow tires with no lift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott in Bellingham Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 dont bother with the 85-89 subys. unless there a hatch. ....... why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbrat Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 my 82 Brat can do some awesome things, and It impressed lots of folks at the event I was just at in September. All there were very capable rigs. it just depends on what kind of wheeling you like to do, and what kind of funds you can throw at your toy. there were places I could fit that bigger rigs could not, and most of the time, there were climbs I could not do because of the steepness of the hills and lack of gearing, and the carb. soome I had to get a run at and/or wait for the crawlers in front of me to get far enough ahead so I could blast up the hill. where the soob really shined was on the muddy trails. the locked rear was priceless, and the 27x8.50s dug in nicely for the most part. I ended up with a nicely crunched right fender, and 5 other dents. I'm glad I a full skid plate on the front, but I still bent and dented my oil sender unit. the body lift on the front of the soobs really exposes the engine (well, at least my 5" lift does) more than I like. and with a built engine, I want to protect that investment more, so I'm gonna do something different for the skid plate... when I look at upgrades I want to do to the Brat to make it more capable for the trails around here, it makes more fiscal sense to just buy something else (non-soob) but I like having the Brat. so we shall see what happens.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subeman90 Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 Don't knock the tracker....I'd wheel it....think of it as a poor mans wrangler or a "new age" samaruai. Either way if it is 4wd and is $500 i think I would beat it like a red-headed step child for a while.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soobme Posted October 20, 2005 Share Posted October 20, 2005 I rented one to explore the jungle out side of Plya Del Carmmen (near Cancoon) Mexico. I can say that it was one tuff little rig:) I beat the H&77 out of it (I had FULL ins. on it) and it never gave up on me:-p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qman Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 A-men! I do relise that every one is just trying to be realistic, and I respect that. But damn! U guys need a little more respect for the Subarus off road performance. Every thing has +'s and -'s off road, but the Subaru platform has an afull lot of +'s going for it. Just my $.02 Part of the problem here is perception. What most of you perceive as 4 wheeling is only light duty stuff. How do I determine this? Well, for starters, everyone that comes with Zap and me for their first time out with the Hatch Patrol say the same thing. "Wow, I didn't know they could do that"! Or they come prepared for what they do and are severely under prepared for what we do. Ask Junkie about skid plates and lockers. The only hardcore non HP pic I have seen to date is from Chazamataz. We have gone beyond what Subaru suspension and running gear alone can keep up with. We don't have a problem with it and you shouldn't either. But, don't come here trying to slam on us either. We are not the end all to Subaru offroad. But... we have set the bar pretty high and look forward to all challengers. Maybe, some day, they will have part support to come up with gearing and heavyduty replacement parts to support our hobby. Until then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Not disrespecting the HP, but I think I have done some hardcore wheeling W/ my wagon. I may suck at driving and be too stupid to know when to let off,but don't tell me I do wussy wheeling. I'm too busy smashing the car through things to take pictures. The only time pictures are taken is when a vehicle is stuck, AKA sunk, buried, or on its roof. Yes, I have been in vehicles doing all 3, luckily the on roof was in a samuri. I've hammered my car into holes that I knew lifted yota's had already been sunk in, and got stuck too. i get a little hot under teh collar when "nobody wheels as hard as the hatch patrol" Hrrumph. as a side note, the word for a young cat is censored? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoahDL88 Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 i get a little hot under teh collar when "nobody wheels as hard as the hatch patrol" Hrrumph. Go wheel with the Hatch Patrol, you'll change your tune. Some of those guys have been wheeling longer than you've been alive. If it dosn't look so hard on video, its cause there so good they make it look easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soobme Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Have not had the plesure yet, but I know what's up with that! And like I said, U guys have done alot more in a Sube than I have yet. So I do bow to your'e exp. on that one;) I don't know if U have any idea who/what "Trail Tuff Suzuki Stuff" is, but I have been wheelin' with the owner & workers there from the get go (10 years ago) and they have respect for the Roos. (and these guys are in all the mags, and run all the top trails) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soobmater Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Have not had the plesure yet, but I know what's up with that! And like I said, U guys have done alot more in a Sube than I have yet. So I do bow to your'e exp. on that one;) I don't know if U have any idea who/what "Trail Tuff Suzuki Stuff" is, but I have been wheelin' with the owner & workers there from the get go (10 years ago) and they have respect for the Roos. (and these guys are in all the mags, and run all the top trails) thats cool, that they actually respect the roo's. a lot of people just laugh at them. then when there stuck and you drive by them, you laugh at them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 What year is the tracker? The early 90's ones are great for offroading. Wanna see what trackers cand do? Check out Real Performance Machines offroad club out of MN http://www.rpm4x4.com/members-rides.htm I also stoped and talked to a fella on base here who had a nice one. '91 Tracker, 6" suspension lift, 33X12 MT tires, stock engine, stock tranny, stock transfer case and he wheeled the piss out of it. Why am I advocating he get something other than a Subaru? Because he WANTED some advice beyond Subarus. Lets be realistic here; he's not going to spend the money and time to make that Forester into a REAL trail vehicle. If he wants to do some REAL offroading; get something that starts off a little more capable then you have to spend less time and money to get it REALLY capable. Building your daily driver into a seriouse trail vehicle isnt realistic, for most people, either. ============== Here comes the Hatch Patrol riding down on their white horses again. Yes you guys have been doing it longer but dont delude yourself for a second thinking yall are the only ones who go balls deep in Subarus. Sorry guys but yall rub me the wrong way with the whole 'we been doing it longer and harder than anyone' routine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soobmater Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 holy crap, those have very short wheel base! thats insane.i bet you couldnt take a corner over 50 in one of those things without endin' up upside down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subeman90 Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 they are more stable than you think.... better than a samaruai atleast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezapar Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Here comes the Hatch Patrol riding down on their white horses again. Yes you guys have been doing it longer but dont delude yourself for a second thinking yall are the only ones who go balls deep in Subarus. Sorry guys but yall rub me the wrong way with the whole 'we been doing it longer and harder than anyone' routine. Easy Morgan, quit finding ways and reasons to punch me in my kidneys when I'm not lookin' . . . All I said was that I can speak cuz I have as much time behind the wheel of a Soob as anyone. . . Never said the rest of the world wheels like a whoos. (although I haven't seen a lot of proof as far as pics and vids to prove otherwise) I have this sneaking suspision that if you followed a qroup up 311A, you'd change your mind a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qman Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 ... ============== Here comes the Hatch Patrol riding down on their white horses again. Yes you guys have been doing it longer but dont delude yourself for a second thinking yall are the only ones who go balls deep in Subarus. Sorry guys but yall rub me the wrong way with the whole 'we been doing it longer and harder than anyone' routine. Dude, why do you feel the need to get all bitter? This isn't an attack on you or anyone else. My point is and will remain that everyone has a different idea what 4Xing is(I stated that) If I had gone and named every name of every person I thought had the same idea as us the post would still be going . I didn't think that was neccessary. Guess the fragile ego's make it so. Get over it. The point is, I will personally invite anyone who feels that they can wheel with us in their Subaru's to come on down. Now back to the real discussion. The Tracker, Trooper and such are decent rigs completely stock. A co-worker used to have one and he went with us once. Only minor body damage and went everywhere evryone else did.(2000) I/we have been wheeling with all sorts of different rigs and clubs. Most true, serious offroad clubs are more into that you are on the trail than what you drive on the trail. We have wheeled with several Sami clubs, the S.N.O.R.T.(look it up). First impressions are that we shouldn't be there. After we hang out with them for a while. Show we're serious and worthy of being on the trail they have all warmed to the idea of Subaru's on the trail. BTW, driving by someone stuck on the trail is asking for bad karma and one thing the HP has never done. Remember that the next time you get stuck. We have pulled fullsized rigs onto firm ground, righted flipped 'yota's(2 on one trip) many a Subaru, Nissan, even a Jeep which slid off the road in the snow. The moral to the story is this. Instead of looking at it as Subaru vs. the world. You'll have a much better time doing whatever it is that you do just because you like it. Be it on the street or on the trail. Do it for the love and enjoyment. Hey Morgan, why'd you lift your wagon. btw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 I'm not bitter; but maybe it came accross that way. Not trying to punch anyone here; just seemed like your guys posts in here were pretty cocky. Yall have the footage to back it up but that doesnt mean everyone else with out pics and footage hasn't done any seriouse Subaru wheel'n. Some of us are too busy driving to shoot a lot of footage. I might have read to far into you and Zaps posts on here; its easy to do over the internet. I lifted my Subaru because I love offroading. I love it more than any brand of vehicle. I'll do it in a Subaru, Geo, Toyota, Jeep, and even a Ford. I really dont care as long as I'm on the trails having a blast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezapar Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 I'm cocky in person Morgan, ask the hundreds of people I've met thru this and other Soob boards. lol ie: NASIOC, SVX.net, Rallitek, ORG. . . The best way to get footage is to kick the passenger out and make him/her film. ***************** You get last word, then I'm closing this. Anybody who really wants to continue the conversation having to do with Soobs vs "other" can do it in the OT Forum. We can post pics of the different rugs that impress us/make us wanna gag and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted October 21, 2005 Share Posted October 21, 2005 Nuf said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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