ivans imports Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 Anuther dead 2.5 1 have determind that headgasket is minoir compared to the real problem { rod angle and berrings ] the 2.5 engines have a steeper rod angle and heavy piston the combanation causes berring fatuge that wears the berrings on the upper rod berring till it spins and wipes out engine dosent seem to matter milage or how it was taken care of or how it ran even on race engines that have not seen many miles always worn on upper rod berring dosent happen on 2.2 or 1.8 just 2.5 thoughts on thiss anyone ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 No, then every single 2.5 would thorw rods. Oil has to be changed regularly and shorter then scheduale. PCV valve must be changed. If a engine is cooked by a HG failure (not overheated buit cooked or repeatedly over heated) and the oil is not changed then odds of a thrown rod go up dramatically. I have only seen three or four throw rods here (one mine), and several more with rod knock, but they were 2.2, 2.5 and a EA . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 I'll tell the story of an abused EJ25d. We bought the 98 Outback with 110k on it as a salvage car because it had been totaled by an engine fire. The odd part was that the fire hadn't been caused by any leaks on the engine and the hood liner was only burned in the area above the fire if the hood was open. The previous owner had poured gas on the engine and lit it on fire with the hood open, then called insurance. Why? Because the headgaskets were ridiculously blown. With the engine running you could hear at least one cylinder breathing through the radiator. It also had really bad piston slap. I didn't run it long enough to warm up because it couldn't hold coolant, so I assumed the piston slap would get better once it warmed up. It didn't. I should have put new pistons in but I just went with headgaskets. Fast forward 70k miles of tack tack tack as loud as a diesel but running well and getting good mpg to when it blows a cam seal out and dumps all its oil down the highway at 70mph. My mom pulls off at the next exit after the oil light comes on, walks to a gas station and picks up a couple quarts of oil to toss in, and drives it to the nearest shop. They replace the cam seal and do a timing belt water pump for $1200. I find out about this after it went down, for $1200 she could have had a 2.2l in there. Would have been nice if she asked my advise. I warn her it could chuck a rod at any time and it was foolish to dump money into that engine. 4k miles later it's still running. It's one of those 2.5's that just won't die, no matter how abused and neglected it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 i lost a rod bearing at 85k miles in a 00 legacy L wagon. i bought it with 83K last year (11 years old). i changed the fluids, and serviced the trans and the damn thing threw a rod on my first out of town trip. i had most of the service records, there was no apparent signs of abuse, and the engine ran well until it started knocking. it wasn't low on oil, and no major oil leaks. i have heard of other engines, 00 - 02? with similar problems that have not been overheated or had head gasket problems. i assumed the problem was with the bearing manufacturing company. but i don't know. i think i remember seeing that subaru changed the ''angle''? of the connecting rod to the crank at some point in time. would this be an attempt to eliminate the issue of bearing wear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 I can't speak to what may have caused any of the above problems, but I do know that most of the companies who manufacture the bearings have outsourced their production to China, even NDC which makes many of the dealer bearings. We won't use these. They're garbage. They are a 2 metal bearing with absolutely no copper in them and they fail miserably. If we can't get Japanese made NDC bearings, we will use ACL Race bearings. In fact, that's what we're using on most of the newer engines. The problem is that it's hit or miss. Even from the dealer, it's nearly impossible to tell the provenance of any given set of bearings. It's hard enough for us to keep a stock of bearings at any given time, considering that Japan is a JIT country. I tell ya: it's enough to drive ya nuts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted May 3, 2012 Author Share Posted May 3, 2012 I get alot have had 8 since january all knocking by the time i see them they are beond repair. dont get me wrong i get 2.5s with 300000kms on them still running and original but if you took it apart you whould see dammage to upper rod berrings. I do not see thiss in 2.2s and 1.8s or ea81\82 but i do see it in justys same deal bad rod angle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 glad I'm using synth oil and accelerated oil changes - but that sucks. when did they change the angle? Is an 06 WRX in the range of having a high rod angle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 I second the ACL race bearings that ccrinc is using. They are excellent quality. That's also the only brand I will use. Especially for the 25D. As for the 25D - yes it does have weak rod bearings. But I have seen carefully driven examples hit 300k without significant rod bearing damage. They don't take the abuse like the 22E and the 251/253 do though. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricearu Posted May 3, 2012 Share Posted May 3, 2012 don't lug your 25D. if it's 5 speed that is. That will super accelerate upper rod bearing wear. Ask my wife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted May 4, 2012 Author Share Posted May 4, 2012 the 2.5 1 seems to be the worst for thiss the 2.5 d will give some warning knock on startup or ticking lifters or knock when reved but the 2.5 1 just spins the berring and done could be just the age of cars but i have seen more knocking 2.5 1 s than 2.5 d s the 2.5 1s seem to die at way less kms than the 2.5 d most of theese had at least 250000 kms or better the 2.5 1 s all under 200000kms some as low as 120000kms spun berrings even not overheated. Run out of oil mabee or luged no oil changes not shure but they dont seem to hold up that well. The average loyale i see has over 300000-450000kms on them and most still have same engine mind you they tick and rattle and miss but still go i dont even like theese engines but at least they held up. Even the 1.2 seems to hold up better and its a known poor engine still go's 250000 kms min before problems i think subaru enginers droped the ball on the 2.5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted May 4, 2012 Share Posted May 4, 2012 but, but, what about 255s ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocei77 Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 EJ253 with 85K. Oil replaced religiously(dino) at 3000-3500 miles. Spun a bearing 3 weeks after an oil change. Only possible contributing factor is I went in for the ECU emissions reflash. Within three weeks my second cat was clogged. Gutted 2nd cat,new front O2and bearing went within a month afterwards. O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 I wonder if any of these rod bearing failures are related to cracked oil pick-up tubes/low oil pressure? http://www.killerbmotorsport.com/index_files/OilPickupStory.htm http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1553337&highlight=killer+b+oil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocei77 Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 I wonder if any of these rod bearing failures are related to cracked oil pick-up tubes/low oil pressure? Can't speak for anyone else, but in my case no. I rebuilt the engine. No cracked tube and oil pump screws were tight, though I know of no pressure issues until the big event. O. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1997reduxe Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 glad I'm using synth oil and accelerated oil changes What kind of synthetic are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 (edited) What kind of synthetic are you using? At present, I use Walmart's Supertech 5w-30 in the winter, and I switch to Shell Rotella T6 5w-40 in the summer. I need to note, I change every 6 months - not mileage, because of low use on the cars. The wife's OBW probably averages 5500 miles between intervals, but my 06 WRX maybe just 3K between changes. And, probably 10w-30/40 is all we need, just that 5w is the most common on the shelf it seems. doesn't mean my cars are immune from any design problems on Subaru's part though! Edited May 5, 2012 by 1 Lucky Texan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted May 5, 2012 Author Share Posted May 5, 2012 all subaru engines that are no hydroilic lifters get 15-40 oil and hydrolic ones get 10-30 have found that 5-30 is to light and will dammage bottom end subaru recomends 5-30 for gas millage pourposes not for longgevity. Have never seen a cracked pickup tube ever in over 500 ej engines have never heard of that ever till now dont think it whould matter anyway cracks whould be below oil level. Have however seen many oil pumps with loose screws on backing plate some had fallen right out thiss could cause oil preshure problems factory engines that had never been apart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted May 5, 2012 Author Share Posted May 5, 2012 Thats why iv'e never seen it 05 and newer turbo cars dont see many of those cars looks like a valid problem though yikes ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccrinc Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 I wonder if any of these rod bearing failures are related to cracked oil pick-up tubes/low oil pressure? http://www.killerbmotorsport.com/index_files/OilPickupStory.htm http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1553337&highlight=killer+b+oil IMHO, that guy has found a non-problem to turn into a made up problem so he can scare people and sell his wares. Besides, everyone knows that NASIOC members flog their cars like red-headed stepchildren. In 17 years, I personally have never seen a Subaru cracked pickup tube unless somebody had been in there and beat on it. I HAVE seen pickup tube o-rings go bad, disintegrate and fall off which causes no oil to be returned from the oil pan. But even that's very uncommon. You can't always pinpoint the reason for a bearing failure: lack of oil changes, overheating, mixed fluids in the engine, age, all contribute. But sometimes you just got a crappy bearing. Or maybe didn't torque the rod caps properly. Oh, and if the car's running rich, like a failed 02 sensor, it can thin the oil and contribute to rod bearing failure. (Seen that.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forester2002s Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 subaru recomends 5-30 for gas millage pourposes not for longgevity. Yes, I agree with that observation. However, for cold-temperature starting, a 5Wxx (or even 0Wxx) oil is easier on the battery than is a 30Wxx oil. It might not make much difference with a brand new battery; but an older battery will thank you for using a thinner multigrade oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 guess I should have knocked on wood just got a 2009 STI in which might just have a cracked oil pick up knocking hard will keep you posted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 and a 2.2 impreza ran out of oil and koncking and a kocking outback and a blown tranny 92 legacy with 400000kms but hey she an't knocken cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairtax4me Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 5-30 is to light and will dammage bottom end subaru recomends 5-30 for gas millage pourposes not for longgevity I don't buy that for a minute. Proper oil weight has everything to do with the climate the engine is operated in. Even says in the manual which oil to use, which is better suited for the climate. 10w oil in sub freezing climate will run like molasses, oil pressure spikes in the pump and it all gets bled off through the pressure bypass valve. The bearings and cams starve while the pump runs triple duty. Lifters won't bleed out because they might as well be full of glue. 30w oil in a 100+ degree climate has the opposite effect. Easy to move but so thin it cooks and degrades because of the heat. The pump then can't make enough pressure to get oil all the way around the bearing before it drips out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 I don't buy that for a minute. Proper oil weight has everything to do with the climate the engine is operated in. Even says in the manual which oil to use, which is better suited for the climate. 10w oil in sub freezing climate will run like molasses, oil pressure spikes in the pump and it all gets bled off through the pressure bypass valve. The bearings and cams starve while the pump runs triple duty. Lifters won't bleed out because they might as well be full of glue. 30w oil in a 100+ degree climate has the opposite effect. Easy to move but so thin it cooks and degrades because of the heat. The pump then can't make enough pressure to get oil all the way around the bearing before it drips out. In hot weather conditions, supposedly you don't need much higher viscosity because the engine runs at 170-210 degrees regardless. But, similar to your example of oil 'running out', to me, seems that 40W is gonna hang around in bearings longer while my car sits in 105 degree temps all day while I'm at work. Plus, when you turn a car off, latent heat can rise - further thinning oil. Worn engines may benefit from slightly higher viscosities too, but I was surprised that Ivan recommended such high W (for Winter) viscosities being 'up north'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivans imports Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 i'm just trying to keep the bottom ends from failing the light oil dosent stay at top side of piston that well here its 10-30 for winter and 15-40 or 10-40 for summer the coldest it gets here is -25 and thats very rare and most subarus round here leak like sivs so the thicker the oil the slower the leaks i run 15-40 in all my subaru engines always have no ill efects i dont trust 5-30 in any subaru engine just to light. but hey thats just my opinion with the rate of rod berring failures anything that may help is a good thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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