Subarutex Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 6-8 months ago: Danbob99 converts his '89 Turbo wagon (upgraded to the hilt) to RWD, by removing front CV axles, and running the tranny in 4wd (push button). A month of smokey burnouts, drifting, and overwhelming awesomeness came shattering to a halt, when the gears engaging the rear output shaft shredded themselves. (yes, we did open up the case to see exactly what went wrong) No, danbob is no longer RWD. Fast forward a month or 2: Buddy of mine shows up some jeeps. Ends up being towed to his trailer. Obviously a transfercase (nissan I believe) or tranny problem. Everyone banks on transfercase, I offer the suggestion of Dan's experience, and its the tranny. A LONG while later it gets fixed. Yup, you guessed it, tranny was the culprit! (I haven't seen the case opened on this one, but it sounded exactly like dan's experience) Fast forward to a day or 2 ago: Adam NDJ DESTROYs the output gears on his t-cased rig. See it, read it here: http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=49835 Hypothesis: Running any EA 5spd (pushbutton or dualrange) in rear output only will result in a dead tranny, by completely destroying the gears that engage and drive the rear output. Kids, have fun, make sure you have a second way home :-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qman Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 While you are right about the transmissions imploding. I think the fact that all of them have had in excess of 150K makes me believe that a fresher trans would not implode so quickly. Also, if the abusers would have been a bit nicer on their equipment it probably would still be running today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waimaks Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 :-\ I was looking forward to RWD too! I think I'll find a beater tranny to do it on then:D Thanks though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 While you are right about the transmissions imploding. I think the fact that all of them have had in excess of 150K makes me believe that a fresher trans would not implode so quickly. Also, if the abusers would have been a bit nicer on their equipment it probably would still be running today. Spoken from a expert I think the Nissan T-Cases are tougher than the running gear on our Soobs. Just dont get to wild with the go peddle and it should be alright (for a while) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subarutex Posted January 3, 2006 Author Share Posted January 3, 2006 Ahh... so if I'm nice to my tranny it won't break? Does that include talking nice to it, giving it baths, and taking it out for dinner and a movie occasionally? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Dont forget petting. They like to be fondled Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subarubrat Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 We are pushing these things beyond what they were ever designed for. Failures are part of the price for that. And I think the fact that a 20 year old high mileage tranny holds up in a lifted Tcased rig with 30 in tall tires, or even 33 in tall tires, with 2 and even 3 times the stock HP, long enough to drive it around the block let alone off road and such is a testament to the incredible quality of the design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jibs Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 We are pushing these things beyond what they were ever designed for. Failures are part of the price for that. And I think the fact that a 20 year old high mileage tranny holds up in a lifted Tcased rig with 30 in tall tires, or even 33 in tall tires, with 2 and even 3 times the stock HP, long enough to drive it around the block let alone off road and such is a testament to the incredible quality of the design. Well said. I believe that we just need to keep working on modifying our subaru's and maybe sooner or later we will get support and or better ways of keeping everything running smoothly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam N.D.J. Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 I would not put so little faith in the trannies. Mine blew because of me. If any of you have seen the paces that I have put my truck through, then you can testify to the amount of abuse that they can take. When I took mine apart I found that the bearing that hold the rear output shaft had A LOT of slop in it. From what I can figure the age of the tranny and the bearings in it caused movement in the rear driven gear, this in turn caused it to come in and out of contact with the drive gear. The replacement tailhousing that I put in came out of the tranny that I was building for my 84, has a new bearing, I also replaced the rear carrier needle bearing for the mainshaft. While I didn't split the case on the gear section of the tranny, the rearend (transfere assembly) is pretty much rebuilt. I did use old gears (try finding new gears for our tranny's), don't worry, they are a match set. Again, going back to Ken's point on the age of our trannies, I had a Mustang with a 30 year old muncie in it that munched 4th gear, can happen to anything. 3 cases out of the dozen or couple dozen of us running this set up is not a reason to condemn something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 I, too, wouldn't lose faith so quickly....case #1, obvious abuse....had it coming case #2....hard to say, but 'showed up some jeeps' makes me suspect abuse case #3....Adam's got an H6....definately more than it's designed for I've driven mine in RWD quite a bit, even with the larger tires, in fact, I will probably do it next summer for daily driving my car on the hills here in duluth, so I can use lo range and save my clutch some Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam N.D.J. Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 case #3....Adam's got an H6....definately more than it's designed for I would go as far as saying that case number 3 is an example of SEVERE ABUSE... I've seen that guy drive. Can you believe that he actually dropped the clutch at 5K RPMS in second gear to get the wheels spinning fast enough in a short span of land to make it up a really slick muddy slope! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qman Posted January 3, 2006 Share Posted January 3, 2006 Pssst, don't tell anyone but... I'm #2. Yes, severe abuse has been the killer every time. The showing up the Jeeps was just that. We were all going up the main trail when they decided to take the quad trail. They were all locked front and rear. While I did it open front and rear. Made it through with some extra effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballitch Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 so what your tryin to say is extra effort = shredded gears? i am going to run RWD this summer just to see what all the hubbub is about, i know i dont have enough traction in FWD so we'll see how it fares. im just going to have to remember to go easy on the go peddle, save me form getting a used tranny, but that would be one heck of an excuse to get a rebuilt tranny witha front LSD........... ~Josh~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subarutex Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 I just want it known that its possible... and I believe its fairly easy to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I just want it known that its possible... and I believe its fairly easy to do. fair enough....I still think it's alot harder than you make it sound especially considering how long subarubrat's been running tcased and NOT had the rear output strip out, I know he's had problems with other gears, but not the same as these. not to mention how many others of us have run in RWD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qman Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 Plus the fact that my trans was in 3 cars that I know of. It was in the '86 wagon I pulled it from. Then my old Hatch. Now there was a hard life. Then into my Brat. My guess is over 200K on it. And it was weak when I put it in the Brat. Reverse was going out and it ground a bit going into 2nd. Got to love it though. It's all good Tex. Not everything can stand up to the abuse we put it through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooinater Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 yeah really... not much puts up to what i make the thing do... original subaru design... rockcrawling. still think it's my tcase that's hashed. it drained last time i was on deployment. really hoping it's not the tranny... crap breaks. especially if you are not nice, and treat it like it probably needs to be. upgrading... cough, cough... always upgrading... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subarutex Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 OK.. Here is another can of worms. Is there any reason to suspect the push button 4wd are not as strong as the dual ranges? I ask this because Ken and Adam put their trannies through hell... however it doesn't seem like burnouts are hard on a tranny, such as what Dan was doing. Ken and Adam - D/R trans Dan - Push Button Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Soldier Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 OK.. Here is another can of worms. Is there any reason to suspect the push button 4wd are not as strong as the dual ranges? I ask this because Ken and Adam put their trannies through hell... however it doesn't seem like burnouts are hard on a tranny, such as what Dan was doing. Ken and Adam - D/R trans Dan - Push Button Hrmm..... Burnout with these little engines usually equals High rev + dump clutch = tire spin. Not good on any driveline parts. I would guess burnouts would be worse especially if you are on pavement. Also, the difference in gearing ratios would come it to play when going from stand still to tire fry. Running in lo range would be less strain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 I've always been under the impression that the push-button trannies were weaker in the rearend than the dual ranges......although now that I think about it, I don't know why but just the fact that you say his wagon was upgraded to the hilt, probably means he was pushing more ponies through there than it was designed to hold. plus the abuse of getting the wheels to spin for burnouts and drifting (although I've done it too....hehehe), plus however many miles where on the tranny.... oh...I know what I was thinking, the full-times with the pushbutton center lock is probably not as setup for pushing all of the power out the rear output, all of the time.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam N.D.J. Posted January 4, 2006 Share Posted January 4, 2006 The pushbutton tranny's use the same output as the D/r. It just has a vacume actuated cable that pulls the lever that moves the shift fork to engage the rear syncro. The full-time also uses the same type of outpu although in a slightly different manner, still gear to gear though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subarutex Posted January 4, 2006 Author Share Posted January 4, 2006 I've always been under the impression that the push-button trannies were weaker in the rearend than the dual ranges......although now that I think about it, I don't know why but just the fact that you say his wagon was upgraded to the hilt, probably means he was pushing more ponies through there than it was designed to hold. plus the abuse of getting the wheels to spin for burnouts and drifting (although I've done it too....hehehe), plus however many miles where on the tranny.... oh...I know what I was thinking, the full-times with the pushbutton center lock is probably not as setup for pushing all of the power out the rear output, all of the time.... Yeah... I can see normally it causing stress doing burnouts, but having done it in his car at the time, it seemed so effortless... Like, how can this be hurting anything but the poor bald potenza's??? I finally talked him into some azenis sports when he could put the go pedal down in 5th gear at 60 and spin the rear tires... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 Yeah... I can see normally it causing stress doing burnouts, but having done it in his car at the time, it seemed so effortless... Like, how can this be hurting anything but the poor bald potenza's??? I finally talked him into some azenis sports when he could put the go pedal down in 5th gear at 60 and spin the rear tires... hehehe....that could be, but I'm telling you it wasn't so effortless in my '85 carbbed EA82 wagon.....but I did it a few times anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 In a few months I'll be going RWD, so we'll see how the 5spd DR holds up in an EA81T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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