N0TKG Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I feel like a newbie asking such a simple question but I'll ask anyway. Is there any way to be 100% certain that I have a broken timing belt before I start removing the radiator, AC, etc from my 91 Loyale? The last couple of trips to the gas station I noticed my mileage had dropped from about 29 to 18 so I knew something was not right. Last week when I started her up to go into town I noticed that the engine was ticking. I checked the oil, that was fine, so I headed down the road. Two miles later the engine lugged for a moment, then died. She turns over but will not start. Given the drop in mileage and sudden new ticking sound, I was pretty sure I lost a belt. Today I removed the distributor cap and turned the engine over a few times. The rotor didn't go anywhere. On my old 85 GL changing belts was not much of an issue. But the Loyale has AC and a lot of other stuff in front of the engine that I never had to deal with on the older car. And since the last time I tore apart a E82 I have become disabled. It takes me about five time longer to get anything done than it did before. The colder weather will probably make my work even slower. So I am wondering if there is anything else I should try in order to be certain that I have a timing belt problem before I start taking stuff off the front of my car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbone Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Seeing that the rotor isnt spinning, thats about as close as you can get for proof. But you can pull off the drivers side timing belt cover to be 100% certain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal_look_zero Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 You can pop out the little oval rubber covers in the center timing cover (used to access the belt tensioners) and look and see if the belt is snapped. I agree with the lack of disty movement being about as sure of an indicator as you can get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 rubber plugs or remove one side cover as rob suggested - it's only 4 (or 2 or 3 remaining if you live in a rust state LOL) 10mm bolts and off it comes. get the ebay kits to repair it - you can get all new pulleys, both tensioners, and the belt for only $60-$80, great deal for all new components. i would not reuse any of those 2 decade old pulleys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N0TKG Posted October 14, 2011 Author Share Posted October 14, 2011 I managed to reach three of the four bolts on the driver side cover today. I do not have much feeling left in my hands so that slows me down considerably. It's a bit frustrating that something so simple as timing belts turns into a major project for me. I checked with one shop, they would do it for $420. One and 1/2 hours labor and the rest of that is parts. As suggested, I checked ebay and can find the kit for $65, so I think I am going continue to do this myself. The car has meticulous maintenance records since new and shows that the belts, etc were changed at 85k miles. She is now up to 125k. I probably should have went ahead and changed them last summer when the weather was warm! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Keep in mind that one month is equal to 1000 miles. The timing belt may have been way overdue time wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davebugs Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 I have no experience with the old Subaru's. But on other models of cars sometimes the belt is actually intact but it eats the nubbins off the belt. So at first glance the belt is actually in place - and it is. But it's still bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N0TKG Posted October 14, 2011 Author Share Posted October 14, 2011 With the rotor not turning, the driver side belt is probably broke. Maybe. I had the belts in the back of my mind for some time now, but it was a bad summer and too many other things got in the way. I bought the car a year ago for $500. It only had 110K, but idled bad and stalled at intersections so the owner wanted to get rid of it. The only thing wrong with it was a bad gasket on an intake manifold. A $3 gasket and I had her purring like a kitten. On my 85 GL I did the belts every other year. But there was not much too it. No AC so it was just pull the radiator and a couple hours later everything was done. But I knew the Loyale was going to be MUCH more work and I am much slower so I put it off a bit too long. I once broke a belt in my Geo Metro. I always carried a spare, so on the shoulder of the interstate I crawled under the car and 45 minutes later was on my way again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 (edited) take covers off to check Edited October 14, 2011 by bheinen74 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 With the rotor not turning, the driver side belt is probably broke. Maybe. I had the belts in the back of my mind for some time now, but it was a bad summer and too many other things got in the way. I bought the car a year ago for $500. It only had 110K, but idled bad and stalled at intersections so the owner wanted to get rid of it. The only thing wrong with it was a bad gasket on an intake manifold. A $3 gasket and I had her purring like a kitten. On my 85 GL I did the belts every other year. But there was not much too it. No AC so it was just pull the radiator and a couple hours later everything was done. But I knew the Loyale was going to be MUCH more work and I am much slower so I put it off a bit too long. I once broke a belt in my Geo Metro. I always carried a spare, so on the shoulder of the interstate I crawled under the car and 45 minutes later was on my way again. Sounds like everything is already settled but, I've read that holding a narrow strip of paper at the tailpipe while someone cranks the starter will show the paper suck IN if a belt is broken or significantly jumped in time due to open exhaust valve(s). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N0TKG Posted October 14, 2011 Author Share Posted October 14, 2011 I finally got the cover off and found the broken belt hanging in there. So I ordered the parts and will start taking things apart while I wait for parts to arrive. Thank you to everyone for all of the advice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjimd Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 On the advice of my local Subieguru I left the covers off on my daughters 93 Loyale. He said that it becomes a 30 minute job with em left off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uberoo Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 I agree.Especially when you spend 5 minutes trying to get out a bolt only to realize its stripped the plastic cover.I am convinced that having covers themselves makes the belts more likely to go.All old subarus leak something.so when the water pump starts weeping or the cam towers leak the timing belt gets to snake through that.Without covers dust,oil,and water wont puddle in the bottom of the cover.as a plus it is very easy to check the condition of the belts.just pop the hood.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 yeah but covers off means mouse can drag in some walnut and then it is chaos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wentz912 Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 If your subie is getting driven often enough, mice and other debris is a pretty negligible problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Look for a place inside the covers where rubbing/scuffing has been taking place. Might a be a sign that the tensioner is weak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N0TKG Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 I could be wrong in my thinking, but I am afraid that if I left the covers off I'd get a lot of ice build up around the belts, tensioners, etc during the winter. When I open the hood after a strong wind I find a solid mass of hard packed wind blown snow. Anything that was warm when the engine was shut off is coated in ice. Even driving through deep snow causes issues. I have to remove the crash pan from under the engine during the winter otherwise it collects a block of ice that keeps on growing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmashedGlass Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Well, I don't think I'd drive without them on either (not where I live) but IMHO, since they are plastic, one could possibly drill a small 'weep' hole at dead bottom on each cover to help prevent crud/liquids build up. My 2 cents, minus inappropriate taxation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subruise Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 i had a hole in one of my covers that let crap in, but not out. as a result i got to learn how to do t-belts. on christmas morning. before a six hour drive. in my climate (pnw) i havent seen significant icing of anything under the hood except for when i didnt have enough antifreeze in my water. (oops) moral: no covers. stuff spins off instead of accumulating. RV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 yeah but covers off means mouse can drag in some walnut and then it is chaos. Also Li'l Rocks from the Road Might get there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Also Li'l Rocks from the Road Might get there... I beg to differ. They can get there, but only *might* cause a problem. I once observed a pebble rolling around on the top side of an ej22 belt near one of the idlers, just rolling there. it was away from the rotation that it was not wedging. i was entertained. it could have been there for a while. but with all this fuss, you have a non interferance engine, and replacing a spare belt takes all of 10 minutes, in the unlikely event something does break from debris. It is really no more downtime than replacing a flat tire the collective experience with open belts will concede that a failure is less likely than dealing with the frustration of belt covers every time you do routine service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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