Seahag1978 Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 I have some problems here... I sent the Brat to the vo-tech to have the tranny and clutch replaced (4 weeks ago!). Anyway, during the last part of the installation, they stripped the brand new cv axle, the part where the nut goes on and the #$@&^% teacher told them to put the cotter pin back on, with the nut free-wheeling! Then he instructed Joe, (Tim's son, (my boyfriend) who is a student there, sorry, gets complicated there) that if the car left their shop, it would have to be on a tow truck because it was unsafe to drive... No &^#$! I sent three (3) manuals that ALL specify 145 ft. lbs torque on that nut. Now I learned there are a few other parts that are toast... I'm not sure what is wrong, teacher never said... I will be sure up call him in the morning to get the whole lowdown. I am so upset, they screwed it up severly... lack of supervision on the part of this one teacher... (a Meineke Muffler drop-out, oh, woe is me! <head bent, dramatic lighting here>). AND he let 2 sophomores do this job! So unfortunately, it was a combination of the lack of knowledge on the part of the teacher, and the over confidence of the students. It's a touchy situation, Joe has to be there for 2 more years to graduate... the teacher has him "in danger of failing" that course. His academics are passing. After speaking to a few... no, SEVERAL graduates, this teacher is a bit questionable as to his abilities. I'm not sure what to do... a tow truck is going to cost over $150. and then buy and fix the stuff here, or leave it get the new parts and have them continue working. Do you think it would be unreasonable to ask for a different teacher to supervise the balance of the repairs? This teacher wouldn't call Tim back to talk it over... says, "he doesn't have time." I know I'll go ballistic if I get up against a wall with the guy... and that's probably likely... now he says there is something wrong with a RADIAL something ... as I said before, I know a lot about parts, but what part would have RADIAL in it, besides tires? Sorry this one escapes me. I need to be as armed as possible with information? He has all my books! Oh Boy! Now, I need to know from you students... how do I handle this? I need to call early tomorrow morning. I appreciate your input! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stngllhm Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 it sounds like that teacher is a load of s**t. did you sign a waiver for them to work on it if you didn't you can mess him over for that. as far as fixing all the stuff i wouldn't trust it to that dumb s**t. and that is the risk of sending your car to a school to get it worked on. that sucks and i'm really sorry to hear about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasteland Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 Get your Brat out of the hands of that HACK at what ever cost. DO NOT leave it there. None of those repairs should have A. taken that long or B. have been done that bad! Post a plea to the east shore members of the board for local help, and get that thing into safe hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahag1978 Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 Moosens and The Bard were considering helping me with this, but Paul is so busy and the opportunity came up for my car to go in... so to not be a "nudge" I took it. (Sorry Paul... gonna keep hackin' about the dash) Seemed strange... I had called anonymously about the project and the other teacher refused it, saying that type of work is only handled by seniors in the latter part of the year... Here's the weird part... I never told Joe that I called the school... two days later, he came in and asked when I could bring it there... anyway, come to find out, he had asked this other teacher on his own and this teacher accepted it. The kid could charm the skin off a rattlesnake. The tranny is in... according to the teacher, the car is undriveable because of the "other" broken parts and he won't release it... unless on a tow truck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 ***-****, mother****ers!!! I'm currently attending an auto-diesel tech program at UAA, and if that kind of thing happened here, s*** would go down! If they broke the thing, they need to fix it. You gave them a simple job and they screwed it up. Find out what the "other" broken parts are. If you can get the car under the supervision of another instructor, that would probably be a safe bet. If you can't do that, get the car the h*** out of there. Sign a waiver or whatever it takes to get the car out of their hands. This kind of thing really pisses me off, as I've seen a few instances of some things getting screwed up due to dumb***** overconfident students here, but nothing on this scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahag1978 Posted October 29, 2004 Author Share Posted October 29, 2004 bump... for overnight... I really need help here... what would you do? Besides pulling it? The kid needs to be in this school for 2+ years... I don't want to make waves and screw up his time there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subyrally Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 thats messed up, i know auto schools are gennerally worthless, at least lincoln tech is, but they wouldnt make mistakes like that. i say that you should get a subaru posse and get them to get the vehical fixerized. if i wasnt so far away, id lend a hand. good luck tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zefy Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 So i am getting from this that you aren't even working on the car yourself... that is very bad!!! My 79 got worked on at my school... all it needed was a clutch job a some tranny work... thats it!!! it took them 2-3 months... they torqued my flywheel bolts to 95ft pounds... obviously they snapped like twigs...i spent something like 60 bucks getting replacements... i am still finding things wrong with my car... and i did half the work myself... (i did all the stuff i did right...) so this is what i would do... i would get the car fixed enough so you can drive it outa there... if need be take out the broken front axels and drive it outa there is 4WD(i assume it has it) now here is the downside... even though they broke that stuff... you have to pay for it... here is the second part... he cannot stop you from taking your car... it is yours and as long as you have a permit or something on the car its all good... he can keep your car if you don't pay the bill though... and your friend who as to stay there for two years... don't worry about him... if a car is in danger then nothing else matters!!! especially a subaru!!! now your last option is to leave it there... let them screw around with it for 2 years until it gets so broken that it is unrecognisable... on my final note... they have other cars to work on... one leaving won't be to bad... good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajavwnsoobnut Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 well I would talk to the other instructor or the Principal (or whoever is in charge of the school) and tell them what is going on and see what they can help you out with if need be talk to the superintendant of the school system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaffineWack Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 I'm would recomend talking to the department chair or someone else higher up than the instructors. sometimes going out and talking to shop owners and seeing what they would recomend you doing can help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 I agree with the others on going higher up. Thats always been one of my fears about sending my cars to a school..but this is the first time I heard of such a bad mess up. I would just find any way to get the Brat outta there. I can lend ya a hand in some way.Let me know...I am pretty mechanical and dont mind getting dirty and I know how to read a manual . If Paul has any parts for you that need to get there ASAP also let me know..its nothing for me to run down and pick them up from him and I can deliver...Bucky and I happen to love road trips. PM me and I will give you my email addy and phone number. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chef_tim Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 The "radial" part is probably the radial arm or plate. Unless it is completely rusted out it would be very hard to damage these parts. Take it up the chain Mary, they screwed up they should fix it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorganM Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 To me it's about ability here. Responsibility and Accountability. They accepted the responsibility of your vehicle by taking it in for reapirs. They should be held accountable for mistakes made. They broke it they fix it basicly. They should be paying for ALL replacement parts they F'd up (like the axle). Asking you to come down with a tow truck and haul off your vehicle they were suposed to REPAIR is just inexcusable. Not getting results from this instructor? Call his boss and tell him how disspleased you are with him. His boss not responding to you addequetly? Call his boss.... everyone there reports to someone and they have responsibility and accountability for whoever is under them. If the beaurcacy gets too thick call around for free legal council on the matter. I bet they turn right around if you call them back and say "well my lawyer said 'x y z'...." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viehmann Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 I have read this thread from start to finish and it made me sick! There are a lot of vo-cat schools out there with no certifications such as NATEF or ASE. There is no sanctioning body to guide or police them! They have no set guidelines on what is being tought, How it's being tought, and by whom. I have some experience in this area as I hold an Associates degree in Auto Tech, I am an ASE 3 time recertified Master Tech with 22 years of automotive experience on many different makes of vehicles. The position I have held for the past 12 years requires this, for I am a automotive instructor @ CPCC in Charlotte NC. At my school we have 3 manufacturer based programs (GM, Toyota, And DaimlerChrysler) I am the program coordinator for the latter mentioned. The instructors I work with are all seasoned car guys with credentials that are equal to or surpass my own. (I'm only 41...still just a kid!) I have taught many classes in many areas of automotive repair and have worked on many student/family projects. Before I say yes to a project I have to ask myself these ??? 1) Will this project be benificial to the students and my class? 2) Is this vehicle a good candidate for repair? (Age, Condition, and Parts availability play a large part.) 3) Can the student or students handle the project with their current level of expertise? 4) Does the owner of the vehicle "Fully" understand that the work will be done by students who are "Learning" how to repair vehicles. They will be monitored and assisted by the instructor but, the "Hands On" work will be done by students and checked by the instructor but, "sometimes" a problem can arise. (This is a big one! All folks want the free labor but, some don't want to assume any risk!) 5) Lastly..If I say yes to the 1st 4 questions...I ask myself ...Can I reasonably expect that at the end of the project "ALL" parties involved will walk away reasonably satisfied. If I answer NO to any of the above questions....It don't come through the door!!! My advise.....Get the Brat out of there ASAP! The instructor is not interested in fixing it! I would also get your boyfriends son out of that program...he could do alot better at an accredited auto tech school! PS If you look in the USMB photo gallery under Viehmann you will see my Justy...My students did a clutch job and Main/rod bearings on that car 2 years ago. There are real good auto schools and instructors out there...the trick is to find them!! Good Luck!! Jim Viehmann CPCC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subiemech85 Posted October 29, 2004 Share Posted October 29, 2004 1. get out 2. people are admitted if they register and have the $ 3. as I am currently enrolled in diesel tech, I just finished the strip and redo of a international dt 466, MOST engines reuse head gaskets until they can no longer be used, the budget is tight 4. EXPERIENCE is what matters for instructors and students, you need 17+ years on the job to work at this college, it seems 5. class just got out, and I popped on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahag1978 Posted November 4, 2004 Author Share Posted November 4, 2004 We rented a trailer this afternoon and got the Brat back... I AM SOOO SICK! The bed is full of parts... sway bar, driveshaft, numerous other pieces I can't identify. Including what looks like the skid plate off a Sherman tank, it's bloody obvious that it won't fit under the Brat and doesn't belong to it?! A rubber glove full of miscellaneous bushings, nuts and bolts that go God knows where. All the electrical and vacuum lines are disconnected. The shifter rods and boots are lying on the passenger floor. The seat covers are trashed... beautiful rings of grease where they laid down dirty parts. The truck is covered in grease from front to back. Including some seemingling artistic type doodling in grease on the hood. There are chips and scratches in the paint on every panel of the truck. My white spoke wheels are scratched and scuffed. They didn't even reinstall all the lug nuts! Hope they're in the glove! After I told the instructor that I had never seen such a lack of respect for someone else's property. I also asked if encouraging pride in your work was part of his teaching ethics, he said, "Yes, and I do teach pride." I said there was everything BUT pride that went into this job, and he should be ashamed to let a vehicle leave his shop in this condition. I went to the principal and told him what happened. He's supposed to talk to the instructor and get back to me tomorrow. He's going to get the other side of the story from the man that told us all that it needed was the ball joints and the leading rod bushings installed and it would be done and driveable. He's a blatant liar! Anyway, thanks for the advice to get it out... it was the right move. You may see it for sale listed as a Do-it-Yourself Brat... or a Box o' Brat. Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thealleyboy Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Mary: Things dont often go as planned when it comes to automobiles. Part of the deal is patience and perseverence. When you give up on a car, it's gotta be pretty bad. But remember, no car problem can kick your *ss, unless you let it. Take a break and think things over. You might conclude that you still have a lot to work with. Sometimes you have to go back to square one, to get to square two. If you are driving a Brat, you are not normal anyway. Giving up is not an option. good luck, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpc1 Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 I don't even think Fox & crew would do something like that even if they were real Po'd at you. But they might drive through your front yard or tow a car through it.LOL! But it sounds like these guys filled your truck with junk. Now I took my Lincoln MkVII to ISU collision center tech school at Idaho State University for a paint job. They did a bang up job and pulled out all the divits, and the finish wasn't bad. then I went through the car wash and it blew the rear window trim clean off. Went to the glass guy and got that straightened out, took off to see my Grandkids and as soon as I entered the freeway my top wind shield trim flew off! I turned around and it was toast, lucky I found 1 at the local yard, took it back to the instructor and told him what was up and I needed him to paint it, He did, then i told him how When I picked up the car(he was out of town) I had to bring it home and take all the door trim of and reset it and the mirrors. Now it started bubbling and they looked at it and said they wanted to do the trunk to investigate. Oh he asked me if I spilled something on it. Then I had to take my door panels off to repace the pass. side mirror and they were all tore up, so I glued em back as best I could and bought some new tree pins which were like 6 bucks per 40, and now neighter rattle. So to hell with takin it back to them cause I can't afford for them to work on it, being crippled up like I am. So here is the deal, these are young men and you would think they would know how to do some basic mechanical stuff, but they don't, and the instuctor does not have enough time to watch them all the time, and they don't have enough integrity to do it right or wait for direction. So they teach them all that they need to go into a paint shop, cause every painter I ever dealt with acted the same as that. :-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahag1978 Posted November 4, 2004 Author Share Posted November 4, 2004 I don't even think Fox & crew would do something like that even if they were real Po'd at you. But they might drive through your front yard or tow a car through it.LOL! But it sounds like these guys filled your truck with junk. Now I took my Lincoln MkVII to ISU collision center tech school at Idaho State University for a paint job. They did a bang up job and pulled out all the divits, and the finish wasn't bad. then I went through the car wash and it blew the rear window trim clean off. Went to the glass guy and got that straightened out, took off to see my Grandkids and as soon as I entered the freeway my top wind shield trim flew off! I turned around and it was toast, lucky I found 1 at the local yard, took it back to the instructor and told him what was up and I needed him to paint it, He did, then i told him how When I picked up the car(he was out of town) I had to bring it home and take all the door trim of and reset it and the mirrors. Now it started bubbling and they looked at it and said they wanted to do the trunk to investigate. Oh he asked me if I spilled something on it. Then I had to take my door panels off to repace the pass. side mirror and they were all tore up, so I glued em back as best I could and bought some new tree pins which were like 6 bucks per 40, and now neighter rattle. So to hell with takin it back to them cause I can't afford for them to work on it, being crippled up like I am. So here is the deal, these are young men and you would think they would know how to do some basic mechanical stuff, but they don't, and the instuctor does not have enough time to watch them all the time, and they don't have enough integrity to do it right or wait for direction. So they teach them all that they need to go into a paint shop, cause every painter I ever dealt with acted the same as that. :-\ The parts in the bed with the exception of the very large skid plate are from MY car... they never put them back in... they just heaped them in the back. Sorry your experience was bad too... we were considering sending the '50 Ford F-1 Tim's restoring to them for paint... his gut told him no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpc1 Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Ya it's tough, when you try to get someting nice done. I restored a 1970 Falcon and I had "the" shop with "the" rep do it. Within a year these spots stared showing up, and the bondo popped on the fender well then I fought with em for another 3 yrs. and all they would say is "we don't warrantee rust" go talk to the painter, then he finally fixed em and told me they were finger prints and bitched at me cause he didn't make any money that week, it was his kid that preped it and got his greasy fingers all over my car and didn't wipe it down, and he missed some on the hood and they are obvoius hand print but he said when He fixed em that was it so F me. Ya they are a fine bunch, and thoses are friends of mine, or were. So might as well go to Maco, or do it yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subiemech85 Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 yes, do it ALL yourself, or with VERY GOOD help, that way YOU blame YOURSELF, and LAUGH at yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maximumBRAT Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 My father is an instructor of automechanics at a Community College up here, having only 40 yrs of tinkering, 2 yrs of school, and 30 yrs as an ASE certified engine specialist. not to mention he can rebuild a 4 barreled carb in 14 minutes (it's true!!!), he's had the job since august.As far as claims; 1. the money is in the waiver. make them show you what you signed, and it may even be tacked to the WO in your car (i'm assuming they left it if they did everything else wrong) 2. The instructors at the government level can't do a whole lot, go straight for the department head. he has at least a little money distribution. 3. When you're putting up a case, mention what a bad word you're spreading (even if it isn't true) about both their educational program and about their service program. CC's are built solely on reputation. This being an issue not experienced by his campus, beyond that he suggests staying within the school, because it's likely the government and lawyers get you no where, and don't forget, if you collect, your towing cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajavwnsoobnut Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 hey Mary you have a digi cam? or a way to get pics of what has happened online so we can see? in fact I can tell you right away if that skid plate is the correct one or not if I see a pic of it and it might be the right one cause the one I have that is for a gen 1 brat/4wd wagon is Huge to say the least so it could be the correct one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Pictures would also be good if you need to pursue legal action with the school. Good luck with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosens Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 Wow,I just saw this post for the first time thanks to your email Mary.What a mess.Call me soon.Yes,I'm busy but I'm usually available later at night.This weekend is work,work,work.But just call and I'll call you back if I don't answer.I'll be in transit from one job to another in the mid morning,that's a good time to talk.Or I'll be on my way back from work#2 around 4-5PM. Sunday is no good untill after 2PM.Then I should be home.....working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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