86subaru Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 is it possible to boost octine by adding alcohol ? and would you gain anything ? if so what type ? like to a 88 turbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 My suggestion is to go out to you nearest large book/magazine store and find a copy of Sport Compact Car. They just did an article on octane boosters that was pretty helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBrat84 Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 I can't say if alcohol will boost oct.. but supposedly a little rubbing alcohol will help you pass emission. I haven't done this myself... so i dont know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86subaru Posted June 3, 2005 Author Share Posted June 3, 2005 the reason why i ask, is because i delivered a sign to a oil place , place has been there a long time , anyways , asked why is gas cheaper at some places , she told me places buy very low octine and add alcohol to get the octine up , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBrat84 Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 Gas is cheaper at different places because of different detergents being used to refine the gasoline.. and different percentages of ethanol and uhm.. what's the other one called? It can also be determined by how much profit the owner of the station is trying to make. Im pretty sure it's illegal to post mix gasoline for "sale". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushbasher Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 octane is a hydrocarbon of the same family as propane, butane etc. By alcohol you most likely mean ethanol (if it ends in "ol" its an alcohol), so it isnt going to "raise" your octane level. However it will raise detonation resistance etc which will make it act like higher octane gas in some ways. Octane doesnt really give you more power, its function is to make gasoline harder to light (it is a more complex molecule that needs more energy to break apart) which allows you to have timing advance and high compression levels without burning the gas prematurely. Unless you are going to advance the timing or run higher boost/compression to take advantage of it, adding alcohol or using higher octane gas is pointless from a performance standpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballitch Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 if oyu want higher octane get your hands on some toluene, that was in that issue of SCC, it has an octane rating of like 114, dont use more than like a 7-10% mix i think is what SCC said. ~Josh~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanislru Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 if oyu want higher octane get your hands on some toluene, that was in that issue of SCC, it has an octane rating of like 114, dont use more than like a 7-10% mix i think is what SCC said. ~Josh~ and wear gloves this stuff is not good for you or your cars ppaint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karinvail Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 using higher octane gas is pointless from a performance standpoint. I don't agree that it's pointless to use higher octane fuel.....When hubby and I first put my engine in my car (220K miles on it, pulled from a crashed roo), it was getting 22 MPG and the person had been using regular gasoline (lower octane). I have been running higher octane (super) in it since and have steadily increased the fuel mileage - my last tank I got 30 MPG. Pointless? I think not, LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushbasher Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 I don't agree that it's pointless to use higher octane fuel.....When hubby and I first put my engine in my car (220K miles on it, pulled from a crashed roo), it was getting 22 MPG and the person had been using regular gasoline (lower octane). I have been running higher octane (super) in it since and have steadily increased the fuel mileage - my last tank I got 30 MPG. Pointless? I think not, LOL If your car gets an increase in mpg when going from regular to higher grade, its more likely that its because the motor wasnt running quite right on the regular gas, than because higher grade is inherently better. I'm sure that f you went to race gas (really high octane) you wouldnt notice an mpg or a performance increase unless you change the timing to take advantage of it. My point is once your gas is adequate for the setup of your motor, going beyond that is just wasting money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86subaru Posted June 3, 2005 Author Share Posted June 3, 2005 this i know , when i use cheaper gas meaning in price , my mpg goes way down , this is on both cars, spfi 5sp wagon, + a/t turbo full time 4wd wagon , i will disagree there is a difference in gas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobBrumby Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 in australia they started adding ethanol to cheaper petrols to make it cheaper as we can make it from sugar cane. but the downside to this remakable fuel is that some of the seals in engines are not designed for it and cracked. maybe you should consider this ey? can u use methanol? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumby Boy Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 Up here in townsville the ethanol petrol is dearer than the regular without it. when the ethanol fuel came out here Mazda sent all the dealers a letter saying what vehicles could and couldnt run this fuel. i cant rember the list but most of them wern't able to run it. i use Shell and united regular unleaded in my 92 brumby, shell when they are both the same price but united when there is more than 3 cents difference. i cant usualy tell the difference so yeah, thats my 2 cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank B Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 Higher octane fuel WILL increase milieage, and performance. I have done this little "experiment" several times with different vehicles. I have always gotten more milieage out of 93-94 octane gas, but the price difference really doesn't give you a savings over 87 octane. Just about any octane booster will cost you, and the price is usually the same or more than the 10 -20 cents per gallon price difference for 93-94 octane gas. So just buy the high octane gas. You will usually get more/better detergents too. I have seen were people run windshield washer fluid in a water injection system, mostly to use the mathanol in the washer fluid as an antifreeze, but you can find up to 50% methanol fluid and that's about the most you want to run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KStretch55 Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 "Octane" is not a substance. It is the name for a rating, of resistance to detonation, given to gasoline. Therefore, it is not a hydrocarbon, nor related to propane or butane in any way, other than the last 3 letters are the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_talk Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 If your car gets an increase in mpg when going from regular to higher grade, its more likely that its because the motor wasnt running quite right on the regular gas, than because higher grade is inherently better. Bushbasher is correct on this. Higher octane (HO) fuels burn slower, in a more controlled manner. Its about timing the ignition event, the peak cylinder pressure (PCP) and crankshaft angle. If HO fuel is burned in an engine properly timed for faster burning low octane (LO) the peak cylinder pressure will occur later than optimal. The burn period of the HO is longer and allows for smoother transfer of energy to the mechanics, but the next effect in a LO tuned engine is a wash. If the timing is advanced to move the PCP back to optimal some power gain can be realized. But the true advantage of the HO fuel is its ability to withstand higher pressure/temperature points without self-ignition. This is why HO fuel allows for higher boost pressures and/or compression ratios. BTW, Octane in the name given to eight carbon chain pure hydrocarbon (C8H18). Long ago internal combustion engines were tested with single molecular weight hydrocarbon fuels and octane was found to be the best. 92 octane fuel is supposed to perform 92% as well as pure octane. Gary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanislru Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 Bushbasher is correct on this. Higher octane (HO) fuels burn slower, in a more controlled manner. Its about timing the ignition event, the peak cylinder pressure (PCP) and crankshaft angle. If HO fuel is burned in an engine properly timed for faster burning low octane (LO) the peak cylinder pressure will occur later than optimal. The burn period of the HO is longer and allows for smoother transfer of energy to the mechanics, but the next effect in a LO tuned engine is a wash. If the timing is advanced to move the PCP back to optimal some power gain can be realized. But the true advantage of the HO fuel is its ability to withstand higher pressure/temperature points without self-ignition. This is why HO fuel allows for higher boost pressures and/or compression ratios. BTW, Octane in the name given to eight carbon chain pure hydrocarbon (C8H18). Long ago internal combustion engines were tested with single molecular weight hydrocarbon fuels and octane was found to be the best. 92 octane fuel is supposed to perform 92% as well as pure octane. Gary Yeah I'll second that, especially the last part. There's alot of mis-information out there regarding octane ratings relating to mileage and/or performance gains. 87 has more energy in it than 92, if your engine is timed correctly for 87 and has a clean fuel system then you should get better mileage from regular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KStretch55 Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 Oops! I stand corrected. I learned something new today, I can go home now. ;-P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TROGDOR! Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 Some local discount gas stations here have started adding ethanol to their gas. The sign states that they use up to 10%. Apparently it IS legal if they tell you beforehand. Any side effects that could come from running this gas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 I'll second most of what All-talk wrote. The only nitpick I have is over the meaning of "92-octane". The original setting of "octane rating" used two reference hydrocarbons: Octane and (oh my gosh! my mind went blank!!! Its either Pentane or Heptane... Pentane IIRC). 100-octane was a fuel that had the same detonation resistance as pure Octane. 92-octane would be a fuel that had the same detonation resistance as a blend of 92% Octane and 8% (mumble). Trivia 1: There were two competing methods of determining "octane rating". One was Motor-Method, and the other was Research-Method. So our current rating system is actually specified as (R+N)/2. Trivia 2: The USA gasoline companies Phillips 66 and Union 76 got their numerical designations from the octane-rating of their fuels. 86subaru, back to your experience with "cheaper" gasohol, at least one of the corn-belt states (Iowa?) subsidizes gasohol as a perk to their economy. Due to alcohol's lower energy density, you will get lower fuel economy on gasohol than on a comparable straight gasoline. BTW, last time I heard, gasohol was a net loss in energy, as it takes more energy to produce the ethanol than the ethanol contains. This may have changed, but I rather doubt it. Without social engeneering in the form of subsidies, the price should be higher than for straight gasoline. Methanol is just plain nasty stuff, and should be kept away from all rubber and plastic not specifically designed for it. It has about half of the energy density of gasoline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subyrally Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 heptane is the opposite of octane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted June 3, 2005 Share Posted June 3, 2005 methanol injection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBrat84 Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 Some local discount gas stations here have started adding ethanol to their gas. The sign states that they use up to 10%. Apparently it IS legal if they tell you beforehand. Any side effects that could come from running this gas? It is getting mixed like this at the refineries and being trucked in like that.. they dont mix it at the station. There is one of thos stickers on EVERY gas station I've seen in Arizona... the use a different mixture of up to 15% some other crap in the winter... winter gas mileage < summer gas mileage.. Detergents or whatever to keep the polution down more in the winter. An attempt to reduce global warming?? I dunno why.. but that's what they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subyrally Posted June 4, 2005 Share Posted June 4, 2005 oh yeah, the reason they arent suposed to put in more than 10-15% is that it gets into the environment and it also tends to eat seals and fuel lines or something like that. i think the stuff they use that effects the environ ment if they use too much is called mmt. or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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