the sucker king Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Alright, here is the story.... A couple months ago I put an ea71 w/ 63k miles in my 77 wagon. The engine had been sitting for 10 years or more. It fired right up, and after lots of miscillaneous tinkering over the next couple months, I ended up with a car that was running smooth as butter, I had a brand new out of the box weber on this low mileage engine, and every tune up item on it was new, plugs wires, oil and fuel filters. I also put an electronic disty on it to replace the points type that was on it. I had driven the new engine for 1000 miles or so by the time I got it running great, and I mean it really was running great. So on monday I headed out east to the plains of Colorado at 2:30 in the morning. It was the last day of pheasant season and the plan was that Stanley (my dog) and I were going to put on at least 500 miles skirting the Kansas border in search of birds. An hour before sunrise, over 200 miles from home, somewhere between Flagler and Burlington (the middle of nowhere), The engine seized up at speed on the highway. No noises, no warning lights, temperature gauge normal. We were dead in the water. So here's what I found when I popped the hood. First, there was oil all over the place. It seemed to be coming from under the disty. The engine was smoking, it may have been oil burning off of the case. The engine won't turn with I wrench. no oil reading on the dipstick. At this point I figured for whatever reason all the oil leaked out under the disty and the engine seized. must have a faulty oil sending unit, as I got no light, and I don't know why the temp gauge read normal, unless the oil just blew out real fast and the water didn't have time to heat up. So I open the oil filler cap, smoke comes out, and it smells awefull. I add one quart of oil and to my surprise, it brings the level on the dipstick up enough to read driveable. It had not lost as much as I thought. It was maybe 1 + 3/4 quarts from full. Anyways, the engine is still seized, it is sitting in front of my shop, and I am going to put another engine in this weekend. In trying to figure this out, I've been wondering why oil was coming out of the disty. I didn't replace the o-ring on the shaft when I did the disty swap, but for that much oil to come out of there, there must have been a lot of pressure built up inside the crankcase. I checked the PCV valve, it apears to be functional. I removed it and can blow through it when it's upright, and I can feel the thing rattling when I shake it. The top of the valve had a lot of oil on it, again I took that to mean pressure in the crankcase. I will Know more as I dig into it. I haven't dropped the oil pan or anything other than I described to you here. I want you guys to help me figure out why this happened. I am sure we will confirm it when I take it apart. Any guesses? Please discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subiemech85 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 piston pin work it's way out?? this is very interesting!! if it is side mount starter, I would like the bellhousing also interested in the crankshaft, even if it ends up being junk, playing with the idea of building an ea72 yes, the ea71 vulture is circling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstaru Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 the petrochemical discombobulator failed,betcha money.........:lol:sorry, i could not help myself.cheers, brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the sucker king Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 piston pin work it's way out?? this is very interesting!! if it is side mount starter, I would like the bellhousing also interested in the crankshaft, even if it ends up being junk, playing with the idea of building an ea72 yes, the ea71 vulture is circling I've got this stuff from other engines, I can help you out with that. PM me with a want list. have tons of stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbrat Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 do you have a pic of the engine as it sits with all the hoses hooked up? I blew oil out all sorts of places when I didn't have the PVC hooked up correctly... the tubes connecting the valve covers, and the pcv, also need to vent into the air box or intake... otherwise the pressure will blow oil out wherever it can. mine blew out the rear main seal and the disty and front crank seal.... this was on mountain grizzly with a weber on it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaruguru Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 i snaped a rod in my old ea71 that was crazy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the sucker king Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 do you have a pic of the engine as it sits with all the hoses hooked up? I blew oil out all sorts of places when I didn't have the PVC hooked up correctly... the tubes connecting the valve covers, and the pcv, also need to vent into the air box or intake... otherwise the pressure will blow oil out wherever it can. mine blew out the rear main seal and the disty and front crank seal.... this was on mountain grizzly with a weber on it.... the passenger side valve cover hose went direct into the air cleaner. The driver side valve cover hose went to a t fitting and then down to the pcv valve on the top of the manifold. The port on the t fitting that could/should go to the air cleaner was capped. Although it would idealy go to the air cleaner, I have run this set up on another car and this car with the old engine, and all seemed to be fine. Let me get this straight, passenger side valve cover is taking air in, driver side pushing it out? I don't see any reason the PCV would not function properly without the line going to the air cleaner. Isn't that just to mix clean air with the blow by gas coming out of the valve cover before sending it back to intake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the sucker king Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 i snaped a rod in my old ea71 that was crazy I thought this, but did the engine still turn when it happened? Do you mean push rod or connecting rod? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 A friend snapped a rod in her EJ22 -- and it still ran. Hole in the top of the block, loose rod, three cylinders. But.. normally, I'd expect that to cause some problems. I'll look forward to the diagnosis. Is this in the green wagon? Z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the sucker king Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Is this in the green wagon? Z yup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the sucker king Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 McBrat, you asked me in PM if I pulled the plugs and tried to turn it. I have not, but what is the thought behind this? Don't forget to adress the PCV issues I mentioned in previous post. Tomorrow I will drain the oil, pull the pan and I'll try the spark plug thing. I'll crack the case once I get my other engine in and running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbrat Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 McBrat, you asked me in PM if I pulled the plugs and tried to turn it. I have not, but what is the thought behind this? Don't forget to adress the PCV issues I mentioned in previous post. Tomorrow I will drain the oil, pull the pan and I'll try the spark plug thing. I'll crack the case once I get my other engine in and running. if by chance, something bad happened, and the cylinders got filled with coolant, the engine won't turn at all, not even with a breaker bar. This just happened to my dad's car (non soob). they took the plugs out, and hit the starter, and it shot all the coolant out through the plug holes. as far as the PCV, I have both my lines vented to the airbox and t'd to the PCV valve. in the past I've run with one side vented to the airbox, and the other vented to a filter. your drivere side was basically a closed circuit without a vent. some engine can take it better than others... (if you don't hook the PCV stuff up correctly on a 350 sbc, it'll splooge oil all over the place ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 So sad Situation with your Engine... but I Believe there was Some High Pressure inside the Engine, maybe the Vent Hoses or Maybe Coolant, even could be Both, (Because it sounds to me like Hydro Lock) but let me ask you a Question: is the EA71`s intake Manyfold a Bypass for Coolant Lines too? if So, maybe the Intake Manyfold has the same Design that have a Li`l Hole to the Hitachi Carb`s Base, to Heat with Coolant... I am not Sure `cos I only have Worked on a Couple of EA71`s (and I Didn`t removed their Carb) if So, Maybe when you did the Weber Swap, Didn`t Closed that Hole or the Intake`s Base wasn`t Flat enough to keep it Closed Tight under High Temps / Pressures... Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bheinen74 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 (edited) would be easy to check radiator antifreeze level. if it still full of antifreeze, then you know the coolant is not in the pistons... my dad's old Audi blew up at interstate speed, pulled the plugs, and one of the plug ends was SMASHED....by the piston when it let go......that was a fun vacation. think that was the audi he ended up ptting a mazda rotary engine in...fun car while it lasted. Edited January 23, 2009 by bheinen74 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the sucker king Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 So sad Situation with your Engine... but I Believe there was Some High Pressure inside the Engine, maybe the Vent Hoses or Maybe Coolant, even could be Both, (Because it sounds to me like Hydro Lock) but let me ask you a Question: is the EA71`s intake Manyfold a Bypass for Coolant Lines too? if So, maybe the Intake Manyfold has the same Design that have a Li`l Hole to the Hitachi Carb`s Base, to Heat with Coolant... I am not Sure `cos I only have Worked on a Couple of EA71`s (and I Didn`t removed their Carb) if So, Maybe when you did the Weber Swap, Didn`t Closed that Hole or the Intake`s Base wasn`t Flat enough to keep it Closed Tight under High Temps / Pressures... Good Luck! You guys may be on it with the water thing. The coolant is down a couple inches, I will probobly pull the plugs and see if it turns. I should have the car in the garage tonight, but it looks like the hoist I was borrowing is not coming through for this weekend. I will probobly drain the oil and see if there is coolant in it today. Yes the manifold has the carb preheat passage, I have heard of people jb welding it when putting the weber on, I never have, I used a little silicon gasket sealer around the passage. I have run webers for yaers now, never had coolant leak there before. Will pull the carb and adapter plate to confirm if that is the direction this leads. Thanks, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry DeMoss Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Hey John sorry to hear about the engine. I am sure I could find you a good one if anything you have doesn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 i'm just here to hear about the post mortum. i am cusrious I threw a rod in blu, along with a straight 6, was noisey as hell but the engine still ran. Maybe you wiped out some pistons? IS it completly locked up or is there very little motion and a hard stop with a wrench? Either way it does not sound pretty. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the sucker king Posted January 24, 2009 Author Share Posted January 24, 2009 I got it into the garage, pulled plug #1 and it was completely smashed, so it looks like a piston went flyin'. I will be tearing into this this weekend, might go back to the shop tonight and prep the engine for removal. Thanks for the help, I'll post carnage pics after I crack it open. IS it completly locked up or is there very little motion and a hard stop with a wrench? it would go 1/6 turn or so and hard stop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 McBrat, you asked me in PM if I pulled the plugs and tried to turn it. I have not, but what is the thought behind this? Don't forget to adress the PCV issues I mentioned in previous post. Tomorrow I will drain the oil, pull the pan and I'll try the spark plug thing. I'll crack the case once I get my other engine in and running.Its a really long shot but maybe there is coolant in the cylinders? Taking out the plugs will let the coolant out so you can turn the engine. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenaissanceMan Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Ah yes, the ol piston grenading problem... I have had ea71 and ea82 pistons grenade on me before. I think it usually starts with one of the ring lands cracking and breaking I got it into the garage, pulled plug #1 and it was completely smashed, so it looks like a piston went flyin'. I will be tearing into this this weekend, might go back to the shop tonight and prep the engine for removal. Thanks for the help, I'll post carnage pics after I crack it open. it would go 1/6 turn or so and hard stop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Ah yes, the ol piston grenading problem... I have had ea71 and ea82 pistons grenade on me before. I think it usually starts with one of the ring lands cracking and breaking That will do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonicfrog Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 (edited) Remember to take pics when you get the engine apart. We LOVE to rubberneck at other peoples disasters!!!!! Edited January 24, 2009 by Sonicfrog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 Remember to take pics when you get the engine apart. We LOVE to ruberneck at other peoples disasters!!!!! i always found it far more fun to take something apart that self destructed then to take something apart that just wore out.... so yes PICS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subaruguru Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 I thought this, but did the engine still turn when it happened? Do you mean push rod or connecting rod? connecting rod it still turned over but huge whole in the block Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratman18 Posted January 24, 2009 Share Posted January 24, 2009 connecting rod it still turned over but huge whole in the block I had a friend that had a 2WD EA81 that blew a connecting rod out through the case. It kept running! Finally after several minutes the rod finally caught under the outside of the case and stopped the motor solid. Pretty cool!! I would love to see some pictures once you get that EA71 taken apart! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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