superu

" The Problem Solver " Just like you dude!!

so the reason for posting 1st gen OB, EA82, 95 leggo (my rig) and the AUS 03-04 Fozzies is those are kind of the transmissions I've been toying with. I've considered the EA 4x4 swap and think I'd get a torquey drive, but that's also FWD, the 4x4 would probably be torquey as well, also a locked center and real 4x4. How would those gears act across the same motor? any ideas? * I think the shorter FD (4.11 vs. 3.90) would be higher RPM at highway speed? is this correct? * And would that 4.11 FD allow a little more torque on acceleration? and how would it play out when combined with a taller? 1 and 2 than my 95 leggo (see next point) * Also curious how the AUS 03 Fozzie's 1 and 2 (3.454 2.062) would play out * My 3.9 5MT and the other US transmission listed have the same gearing listed from 1-5 (except EA82's 2,3,4; 97-99 OB's 5).. I'm kind of hoping for more torque/acceleration in the low gears (1 & 2) and a decent (i.e. NOT 4K) RPM at 70 MPH in 5) RPM at highway speed. thoughts/ ideas??

NICE WORK!! And @ $500 to start, you are WAY ahead of the game.. kudos!

O.K. That actually confirms my suspissions that Honduras, and all Latin America has dual range EJ transmissions like Australia and Europe. I'm actually more interested in a D/R EJ 5 speed than a D/R AE 4x4 5 speed. But as you say you can't get Honduras wrecked parts, so it becomes a bit tricker trying to get a good used EJ D/R 5MT from your country... Hmmm,

Hey JesZek! I'm returning to this old thread with more info and questions for you. I'm finally finding the information I wanted about Australian transmissions and their diual range AWD gear boxes offered in new generation foresters, legacies/liberties and outbacks. BUT I'm still curious about the Honduran transmissions... Like this older legacy with the carbed EJ22 and dual range 4x4.... Do you suspect that was an EA82 transmission or do you think that gen one legacy CAME WITH a dual range 4x4? You also indicated others were with the 4x4 sicker not the AWD sticker... I'm still very interested... It may be cheaper freight from AUS than from Honduras, despite you being MUCH closer, but international commerce is more with AUS... You remember my brother-in-law Erik? He found out about your dual range transmissions and is going to have his brother look into it for me also... I'm still working on getting one, but have not completed the task yet... I hope you and your family are doing well!! best, -mark-

Major bummer man! I'm really sorry to read about this bumm-deal, espeially after all the time, effort and work you'd put into the rig! Mad sympathies and empathies bro. When I T-boned a young lady who pulled across right in front of me, and insurance totalled my car, i fought with them for liek 3 months to get fair market value of my 95 legacy (4ish years ago), to finalizy my settlement at $4500. I can see if I have that insurance paperwork if you would like a copy. Granted market value of northern AZ may be different than where you're at, and granted it's like 4 years ago. but let me know, I'd love to help you get a more accurate car value when compared to the academic unknowing "kelly" value. best to you and your head space, reading the forum, i think you've kept your composure well! -mark-

So here is some data: the US info is from the tranny chart that floats around here and the AUS info is from a tech bulletin (http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulle...03-04-a-34149/). The EA82 info I got here somewhere, sometime ago. Am I reading this correctly? The USDM forester is geared identically, save reverse and FD, to my 3.90 FD 5MT. The AUS forester (NA) is geared a touch shorted in 1 and 2. US EA82 is geared way shorter in 2-5 than my 95 legacy... Are these the numbers we're talking about that help determine driving characteristics, rather than just FD? And these are also tunied to stock tire diameter, etc? (problems with formatting this gives year and model 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and reverse, FD and notes) 95-96 US leg 3.545 2.111 1.448 1.088 0.78 3.416 3.9 push clutch 97-99 US OB 3.545 2.111 1.448 1.088 0.871 3.416 4.111 push clutch 99-04? US FOR 3.545 2.111 1.448 1.088 0.78 3.333 4.111 push clutch AUS Forester 2003X 3.454 2.062 1.448 1.088 0.78 3.333 4.11 1.196 low range AUS 2004XT 3.454 1.947 1.366 0.972 0.738 3.333 4.44 no low gear US EA82 85-89 5spd 3.545 1.947 1.366 0.972 0.78 3.416 3.9 1.592 low range US EA82T 85-89 5spd3.545 2.11 1.448 1.088 0.871 3.416 3.7 1.196 low range

hey dude, do you have an update on this transmission's application?? interested. . .

Right TCU for auto. I had another thread asking about swapping a 4EAT into this rig... I get you about MT for MT not having those wiring issues, BUT depending on MY of donor car, there might still be some other issues? Or is a MT a MT year independent? Would there be a mY i wouldn't want to go newer of? ALSO, these other posts got me thinking about the clutch issue. there's the hydraulic vs. cable clutch issue... I have a cable clutch in my rig, so what would happen if i got a tranny from a hyrdaulically operated clutch? Is there a fast and simple way to determine this, e.g. newer than 03 was hydraulic, etc? OR are they not that easy to tease apart cable vs. hydraulic operated trannies?

Hmmm. So leggos yes, but COMPLICATED leggos. This tranny was actually an eBay tranny from australia (dual range)... so not so easy to make happen, particularly if i need to pull thisses and thants from the donor car... As (I think both of) you guys may know, I'm trying to get an OB geared 4.11 final dual range AWD (with a useful low gear, either 1.44:1 of ideally 1.59:1). I'm trying to do it the easiest plau and play way without having to gut and swap out from like 3 transmissions to make one... If i got a liberty box from down under and swapped out the front diff from a US OB for 4.11, then swapped out the low gear from a US EA82, i'd end up with a 4.11 1.59:1 low 5MT, but using 3 boxes to do it... I think there are forester down under that are 4.11 final with 1.44:1 low, but they may be XTs, and therefore as you say a difference in hydraulic vs. cable clutches and TCU issues... ARGE!!! I've toyed with an EA82 swap for a rear 4x4, but don't like the 3.90 final.. Althogh the rest of the gears are a bit different from my 95 5MT AWD, so the start up may be different, i just don't like the FWD part of daily driving... AND i think i'd prefer the 4.11 final. . . bu there are other issues, questions with that reality.. Hmm, so it looks like i might do better getting an aussie forester box with the 1.19:1 low and swap that out for a 1.59:1?? But i guess that depends if the rest of the gears and final are better setup for a taller tire (like i think they came, 215-60-16) as with a 4.11 final. . . I wonder if a forester (non XT) would be 4.11 but with the 1.19:1. That way I'd just need that box and an EA82? Hmmmm, more research to do i thinks... I REALLY wish I lived closer to more you USMB gear-heads/wrenches and could brainstorm an pool knowledge bases easier!! So in your opinions, what would be the easiets, most relaible way to get a FT AWD, D/R with 4.11 final and a decent low gear (like 1.44:1 or 1.59:1)? I realize this is going to take knolwedge from australian or european gear boxes as well...

Ahhh. I see it's not so simple. Hmmm, so my first instincts of getting an OB tranny were pretty good. Now to refine and figure if its 1st gen or 2nd gen OB, and how foresters would also factor in. . . AND to complicate it all, i'm interested in an Australian Forester transmission, maybe from an XT, but not positive yet. . . So to compensate for my taller tires in an otherwise stock 95 3.90 5MT, I'd be best to get the whole package (i.e. tranny and rear diff) from a rig that had a taller tire setup, like an OB or Forester? AND just swapping my front and rear diffs for say 4.11 or 4.44 wouldn't do so much as a whole tranny final geared as such (remembering all gears are more set for the setup I have created)? I do have the Subaru Manual tranny chart (but can't seem to attach it) and have found gearing from earlier generation manuals.. So I could review the 1-5 gearing of what I think I'm looking at (5MT forester XT) vs. my leggo... This thread is clarifying my questions about final drive as relates to 1-5 gearing (which i hadn't considered in my thoughts before)... Hmmm:rolleyes:

Interesting... sounds like this would've solved my friends delemma of 4.44 5MT into his 02 WRX. . . (if that's the 180 to 160 marriage application? If not, I think its a similar concept of fixing spline count differences as with EA tranny swaps into EJ rigs, no?) What are 180's from vs. 160s? (I'm just not that into the numbers, similarly with body codes, like SF, BD, etc. . ) Are 180's from 4.44 trannies, or strictly an STi, highe HP axle? vs 160's are those old gen axles, like EA82s or are those also early second gen, like my 95 legacy? Thanks, -mark-

Will a SF Forester transmission mate to a '95 legacy EJ22? I think it's 4.44 final drive (i know I'll have to change the rear diff too), but are the axle splines compatible from SF Fozzy to 95 legacy hubs?? I have a friend who almost put a 4.44 5MT into his '02 WRX, but there were axle spline differences meaning he'd have to swap his hubs and rotors, etc to make it work.. I wonder if this Fozzy gear box will give me those woes too or if would be a bolt on swap. I understand the bolt count from motor to tranny may be different (i.e. 4 bolt on my motor to a 6 or 8 bolt on the tranny) but those on my block should mate to some of those on the new tranny. . . questions, comments, concerns, things to look out for or be aware of? ? ? thanks! -mark- (eBay, checkit: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230509549984&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT)

That sums up what i was thinking! Thanks subaru360! Grossgary: Good point. i do have that MT spreadsheet and have also found similar gearing info from the EA82s (for when i was thinking of a 4x4 swap)... But doesn't the final drive calculate with ALL the gears such that cars with the same geared 1-5 but different final drives would have slightly different driving characteristics? So to compensate for taller tires, should i look at the gearing of cars with stock taller tires, like OB? I think the only difference b/t their 5MT and mine is the final drive. I think my MY 95 had 4.11 as an option, but my rig is with 3.90 final... I think the gearing for 4.44's are different since i think they come in 6MT, maybe some 5MTs out of GTs or FXTs (as subaru360 indicated). Renob123: are you driving a WRX or STi? I think they, while having 6 speeds, are also 3.90 to give high top end, while the HP and turbo kick up the lower end acceleration. Hmmmm, so what you're saying is i could keep my 5MT's gearing and swap out its front diff for a 4.44 diff, and oc caurse the rear for a 4.44 diff also? I have a friend that was going to put a 4.44 in his 02 WRX, but there were different spline counts so he'd have to change his hubs and rotors, etc. etc. Thus he bailed on that idea. I really am looking for a plug-an-play 4.11 (4.44 might be a bit nicer i think) hmmmmm

So I want to clarify something about gearing in my head regarding final drive and what it means in terms of general performance. So as motors have gotten more powerful through the generations from EA71 81 to EA82 to EJ22, EJ25, EJ20 and EJ25T gearing has also been changing. Older rigs had 3.70 (maybe different even earlier than early 70s gears, I don't know) then 3.90 and 4.11, and the SVX and or RX (I think) had something weird and unique, but finally i guess there is 4.44 gears. So there's talk of taller gears and shorter gears. Am I correct that as the number gets 'larger' the gear gets shorter? So 4.44 is shorted than 3.90? And what does this mean in terms of output to the ground? Would taller? gears like 3.70 and 3.90 be set up for top end, or lower RPM at higher highway speed, but shorter? gears like 4.11 and 4.44 be higher RPM at high speed bu more torque-y to the wheels? So, for example, given a NA EJ25 running 3.90 5MT, would that have slightly lower RPM at 70 in 5th than the same motor running a 3.90 5MT at 70 in 5th (all things being equal, like tire diameter, model, weight, etc.)? Am I on the right track here? If not please show me the light. Here's what's fueling my questions, and it's been mulling around in my head for a few years, touched on here and there by this thread or that thread but maybe not ever so directly approached. . . I'm running a NA EJ22 5MT with 3.90 final drive. I've upped my tires from stock 185x70x14s to 27" At's. I've done some calculators online and think to compensate for the increased tired diameter (and maybe weight), I'd need like 4.54 gears to regain "stock" driving characteristics. To compensate for these taller tires I think I can regain more stock-like driving (e.g. stop to go acceleration) characteristics by going with an Ob transmission (5MT 4.11 final drive), or maybe even 4.44 final drive, although I think those trannies may be higher $$ compared to first gen OB 5MTs (and some have even said first gen legacies ran 4.11 final in their 5MT)... ? ? ? hep me clarify . . . thanks!

zyewdall, Believe you me, I've been toying with that for like 5 1/2 years!!!! But with 27" tires i now need shorter gearing, like 4.11, maybe 4.44. . . the 3.90 makes it a little, er, a LOT sluggish with the taller heavier tires.. But you're right about ease and most bang for the buck if a tranny swap is in order, particularly when "off road" is mentioned I think an EA-swapped 4x4 into an impreza is the IDEAL rig!!! Light like the old GLs but a higher output motor with gen 2 rigs, PLUS rear gearing and REAL 4x4. I really like the FT AWD when compared to FWD for daily driving and especially when snow and conditions dictate... I'm actually looking into swapping into a DR AWD from australia.. To keep FT AWD and gain a low gear. It's the other best of both worlds.

Hey, thanks for all the feedback!! WOW!! what a PITA, for a guy like me... Yeah, it sounds like a LOT more than I want to or am comfortable getting into for pulling a camper, and some more trail access... I did practically burn out a 1-year old clutch in 5 minutes though, ALREADY, just trying to position the thing uphill in gravel beside our carport, when I had NO problems with our old (now gone) 4EAT 1.8 impreza. Thus the inquiry to switching over to auto. I'm not interested in or have the space for a donor car lying around, nor (with a new baby) do I have the time, interest, patience or really the tools to do such a job in my "free time" these days But, this IS validation which further substantiates my interest in getting an aussie D/R AWD manual!! :banana: That's been my REAL goal now for a few years, and the auto was like a short-cut and cheaper way to be able to tow better and do some harder wheeling or steeper grades. SO, in short, methinks you all helped further my cause and further justify the D/R AWD hunt.. THANKS!!

Hey Nip, I'm a mostly city/pavement driver (this rig is my daily driver, and now the baby mobile), with FS/maintained dirt roads (when i go to the mts, for hiking, skiing (given appropriate season) , backpacking, access to fun places and things, etc., snow (in season) and some trail stuff, cuz, well, I do live in Moab. . . . Also, we recently got a camper/tenet trailer (to compliment our first baby, now 6 months old), so there'll be some towing regionally with setting up in campgrounds but more use off pavement in forest and BLM settings...

Hmmm, do-able maybe, but doesn't sound like my cup of tea... I'm not too interested in the wiring side of things.. Just looking at pix of what ppl go through for EJ swaps REALLY turns me off Maybe its a lack of experience in that deep of moding or maybe lack of tools, time and luxury to have the car out of commission for so long... I'd be psyched to help or get in on another project like this with other folks WAY more in the know than I, but not so much on my rig as a first go... Thanks for the good info thogh! It helps me stay on my original idea of an aussie D/R AWD... Because truth be told, I'm REALLY a stick shift guy. That way, a stick AND a low gear (similar to 1st in an auto)... More happier for the clutch and me..

Ahh, roger that.

Nice report, sounds good! I have a question for you (knowing you've done a bunch of good retrofitting), haven't you converted a dual range to 4.11? Do I recall correctly you have a red first gen legacy wagon with a dual range swap (running the stock NA EJ22), but also swapped from 3.9 D/R to 4.11 dual range? thanks and nice work hauling an engine swap cross-country! -mw-

(subscribed) I like where you're thinking for this! A guy in another forum did a 98 Fozzy for $500, then cleaned it up NICE, did a second gen fozzy strut swap (got a lift), did ATs, AND blocks. LOOKS GOOD! Anyhoo, i like your idea of an EJ22T in a fozzy with 5MT.

So I have a 5MT in my strut-lifted 95 legacy, running 3.90 final, but I'm thinking of swapping to a 4EAT (probly 4.11, maybe 4.44 final). I think it would be better for towing (particularly backing and positioning a camp trailer off pavement in the woods) and off road (particularly the steeper stuff), but I'm kind of a die hard manual transmission guy. Anyhoo, I'd like driving impressions of basically the same rig across transmissions (like if you've driven a stick outback and an auto outback, etc... in a basically same trimline, model, etc...). ALSO, I've seen folks to the 4EAT to 5MT tranny swap, but I can't really find (through a cursory search) anyone who has gone from stick to auto.

So I have a 5MT in my strut-lifted 95 legacy, running 3.90 final, but I'm thinking of swapping to a 4EAT (probly 4.11, maybe 4.44 final). I think it would be better for towing (particularly backing and positioning a camp trailer off pavement in the woods) and off road (particularly the steeper stuff), but I'm kind of a die hard manual transmission guy. Anyhoo, I'd like driving impressions of basically the same rig across transmissions (like if you've driven different transmissions in a basically same trimline, model, etc...). ALSO, I've seen folks to the 4EAT to 5MT tranny swap, but I can't really find (through a cursory search) anyone who has gone from stick to auto. thanks, -mark- PS, I'm posting similarly in the retrofit forum also..

I love your attention to detail