December 1, 200718 yr I want to throw a poll out there and see how many miles you've gone without a head gasket issue. Please list year/make/model/ auto or manual. Here's mine: 2000 OBW 5-spd 86,000 No signs of HG issues of yet. Mostly freeway driving (30mi one way to work). Knock on wood!
December 1, 200718 yr Lost count a long time ago how many head gaskets I have replaced on customers cars but it has been a lot. 97-99 OB's 2.5L DOHC engines. Lowest milage ~80k Highest milage ~180k 2000 and newer 2.5L SOHC engines. Lowest milage ~35k Obviously sent to dealer for warranty replacement. Highest milage ~188k
December 2, 200718 yr 1997 Legacy GT Sedan lost at 85,000 1996 Legacy GT Sedan about 130k 1996 Legacy LSi Sedan about 110k
December 2, 200718 yr 2000 Outback wagon 2.5L ..... 120,000 miles zero coolant leaks, and counting! Also '96 and '94 Legacy but those have the 2.2L's.
December 2, 200718 yr 95 legacy wagon. 261,000 mi. the car had 259,600 when i got it. all original motor. i put a transmission in the car to drive it but the motor is the same for all i know, and i believe it.
December 2, 200718 yr Original owner of a 1996 Legacy GT Sedan with 116,500 miles on original HG and no signs of any issues with the HG.
December 2, 200718 yr 1997 OBW Blu's first engine went 191,000 miles, then threw a connecting rod. The HG was fine. Any engine over 120,000 that blows a HG is racked up to age. nipper
December 2, 200718 yr My '99 Forester (2.5sohc)went 139K on its headgaskets, though had to be rebuilt for other issues.
December 2, 200718 yr 94 Legacy GT Wagon - 2.2 - 5 speed manual. 140,500, original HG's, runs perfect. GD
December 2, 200718 yr 95 Impreza Automatic 467,000kms (290,180 miles) HG still going strong before it met its untimely death...
December 2, 200718 yr '96 Outback Wagon, EJ25: gaskets replaced by the previous owner at 135,000 miles.
December 2, 200718 yr the EJ25 is the only engine that will produce interesting results. any other subaru engine usually holds the head gaskets for the life of the engine if they are properly taken care of. Any engine over 120,000 that blows a HG is racked up to age. nip! i'm not sure that's relevant to this thread, that's been hashed out over and over. that is equivalent to saying this: "it is impossible for a bad design to affect failure rates beyond 120,000 miles". that's absurd and you know it!
December 2, 200718 yr the EJ25 is the only engine that will produce interesting results. any other subaru engine usually holds the head gaskets for the life of the engine if they are properly taken care of. nip! i'm not sure that's relevant to this thread, that's been hashed out over and over. that is equivalent to saying this: "it is impossible for a bad design to affect failure rates beyond 120,000 miles". that's absurd and you know it! No but its impossible to blame a bad part for after 120,000 miles. Many cars blow HG's over that age, and it is not blamed on design. If you use that criteria, then anything that fails over 100,000 miles is a bad design. Also its still not 100% proven that it is a desighn issue, as opposed to a cleanliness issue, an assembly issue, or a bad run of head gaskets. For instance, Dodge neon, which is running at 100% failure rate (at about 60K), is a bad design. I am sorry but if it made it past 120,000 miles, its not a bad design. nipper
December 2, 200718 yr i'm trying to keep things straight for people trying to figure this stuff out and based on your assertions there is no difference between EJ22 and EJ25 headgasket failure rates after 120,000 miles - that is completely false and not good for people looking for information. Also its still not 100% proven that it is a desighnlet's not make this worse by getting hung up on semantics. we all realize there is some issue at hand with EJ25's, regardless of how you define it or what you call it. If you use that criteria, then anything that fails over 100,000 miles is a bad design. what? i never said "anything that fails after 100k is a bad design" ???? more semantics, use whatever word you like that describes the EJ25 "issue" to your satisfaction...it's not a criteria, i never used that word. it's statistics, logic and experience. you really honestly believe that whatever "issue" they have, has NO EFFECT on the failure rates after 120k. for someone with engineering experience that's hard for me to imagine you really believe that - that the failure rate magically drops to zero...is that an asymptote, a limit? all semantics aside, experience tells us this, it is quantifiable: more EJ25's fail after 120,000 miles than EJ22's. that alone is enough, but then there are tens of thousands of EJ22's that are much older than EJ25's. the EJ22/EJ18 debuted 6 years before the EJ25. based on your "age" assesment, there should be far more 120k+ EJ22's with head gasket issues than EJ25's. that logic is comical, it is not at all even close to what we see in the real world (coming from someone who looks for an buys EJ's with bad head gaskets). actually, it's quite the opposite.
December 2, 200718 yr I would have to side with Gary on this one. Several reasons: 1. The EJ22 is the gold standard for all EJ engines. It was the first, and so far it is still the champion for reliability. That is nearly undisputed here, and elsewhere in the Subaru community. 2. We are *only* talking about Subaru's. Dodge Neons are no more applicable than the lunar rover. What is considered "reliable" depends a lot on customer expectaions, and if you have created the expectation (as Subaru has, I would argue, with the EA series, and the EJ22) that the engine should be major-failure free for 300k+, then you can't go and produce something like the EJ25 phase 1 that rarely lasts beyond 120k on head gaskets, and has a higher failure rate of bottom ends and expect people to just accept that. 3. You can't call it a bad run of head gaskets either. First, the failures correspond directly to the introduction of the "open deck" cast blocks used in conjunction with the DOHC heads, and higher cylinder pressures - they really should have used a closed deck design as the EJ22T did - instead they gambled with the customers money. Further, Subaru redesigned the head gaskets 6 times. If that's not an admission of a "problem" then I don't know what is. A simple "bad run" or "poor assembly" would not require a redesign even once, let alone 6 times. 4. The "Design Issue" argument is further born out by the fact that the phase 2 engines continued to have head gasket problems. It took time and lots of money to R&D the problems away. Three generations later and our figers are crossed that the problems are now gone. But it is pretty obvious they existed and took effort to overcome. And to Gary - the EJ22 development was began in 1985, and debuted in 88 an 89 elsewhere in the world. We got them in 90, but they predate the EJ25 by a bit more than 6 years. The EJ25 was a simple "update" to the EJ22 design (or it was supposed to be) where the displacement was increased and the blocks cast with a less expensive method than sand casting. GD
December 2, 200718 yr If we could access the failure rates of the EJ25 HG's, I'm sure we could see that they run better than 50% over 100k mi, increasing exponentially with every 10k mi beyond that. In my book that's a defect. Be it a design issue, or bad parts. The actual cause is really moot, as no-one has come forward to explain the problem satisfactorily. I feel that Subaru needs to step up & admit there's a problem. With the age of the motors in question, I don't feel they're responsible for fixing them. Although they SHOULD find the problem & make a retrofit kit to solve it at a discount to the owners. 120k mi is WAY too soon for HG's to expire naturally. They are NOT a wear item. When I pull my motor, I intend to do a thorough post-mortem on it. While I may not find the actual cause, I may find a few things to set others looking in the right places.
December 2, 200718 yr 2000 Legacy, A/T 186,000 and ready for another 100,000 when whacked by a Grand Cherokee. Never a hint of a GH problem, did have the Subaru gunk.
December 2, 200718 yr 97 legacy GT bad head gaskets at 143k 97 outback still good at 120k - i have my fingers crossed. 95 legacy always good at 180k i'm always surprised to read about a bad 2.2L engine, either HGs or rods/brearings.
December 2, 200718 yr My 95 2.2 Legacy wagon had a small external antifreeze leak at +137K. I had both head gaskets replaced as a precaution. The shop confirmed no internal oil or antifreeze leak. It was another shop that diagnosed the head gasket problem after a pressure test of the coolant system. I'm not sure how far I could have gone without replacing it but didn't want to take any chances.
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