SUBARU3 Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 OK....I will open a can of worms here. I'm a dedicated EJ22 and EJ18 person, (outside of the EA71) I love the power, the reliability, the hydro lifters, the non-interference design and the gas mileage. BUT, they are starting to get old and I'm FINALLY looking at newer Subarus. If you wanted a close 2nd in reliability to the 90-96 EJ series engines, what year cars/models would you look at, new or older. Subaru of course. Why do you like that year/model? Thanks!! Todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subnz Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 (edited) Well you're right on the money, stick with the EJ22 SOHC (for the reasons you gave) in a Legacy / Outback manual 90 - 96 heard of these getting 400K + easily. Haven't had one but this is what I would have got in a Legacy. These were popular here too for those reasons. Anything with an EA81 ( for old school simplicity reliability etc too) particularly in a Brat / Brumby. I'm biased of course having one Have a soft spot for earlier Ea82s (smoother more free revving more power than EA81) also too for simplicity reliability (carb / manual ckoke + breakerless distributor/coil) in a GL / Leone 85/86 (had 2 of these) apart from silly cam belts as the the success of this engine is what EJ engines were developed from.. In something more recent the H6 EZ30R 2005 + ( 5EAT) in an Outback .again biased (less issues ie headgaskets no cam belts) Edited January 26, 2016 by subnz 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaleda Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 I don't think your going to get any more reliable than an ej22 interference or not. As long as you take care of the timing belt like you should an interference motor is no big deal. I think an ej251 with updated gaskets can be a reliable motor as well, still I don't think as reliable as an old ej22 though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 95 2.2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureSubaru Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 95 and 96 EJ22 and EJ18s were the best of both worlds being OBDII and non interference. (interference being irrelevant if timing belt and components are kept up to date) Going from there both forward and back the comparables would be the EA81 (A dog when it comes to power but as nearly indestructible as a motor can be. Forward would be the 2010-2012 last iteration of the EJ25. Seems that head gasket issues were back to the early EJ22s in reliability and we're back to a motor that will go 300k without much work. the 1999-2004 EJ22s and EJ25s were nearly identical and equal in reliability. The head gasket design was improved but not fixed over the EJ25 DOHC nightmares. Seems due at least once between 100-150k and if done well, will not need replaced again. 2005-2009 - Seems improved again but still not solved. EZ30 - very reliable motor but a very large pain in the rear to work on/find parts for. (No space to work!) Done one EZ30 swap and would do it again, but it's a beast, and should head gaskets or timing chain ever need replaced, it's a bear of a job. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 'best' might depend on your intended use. dunno if we have enough time on the FB engines to determine possible longevity. how have the diesels been holding up overseas? Kinda wonder about my 06 WRX's engine. (of course, many are 'tuned' , raced or abused) it seems to not have the oil screens, it does have a water cooled turbo bearing. of course, turbo HGs ... how durable will it be with somewhat 'normal' driving? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBARU3 Posted January 25, 2016 Author Share Posted January 25, 2016 I currently have 3 1995 (EJs).....I'm there with you on that they are great. I'm looking "forward" and "newer". So from 1995 all the way to 2010, Suby engines were marginal? So the 2010-2012 engines have finally made it back to the EJs in terms of reliability? And yes....the EA71s and EA 81s just NEVER die! I have some 70s wagons too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 Get a nice 98-99 Subaru outback with a bad 2.5 DOHC engine and do the 2.2 swap. You will be in a newer car and love the engine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBARU3 Posted January 25, 2016 Author Share Posted January 25, 2016 I already have a 95 Legacy 2.2 and 2 1995 Imprezas. Great cars. BUT ... I am wanted to look at newer cars for technology, style and other reliability issues. Don't get me wrong, I love the 95s - 99s, just starting to want a "change", a fresh new style....etc. So like something from 2005-new. I keep cars a long time, so I just don't want to get into anything other than Subarus BEST! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted January 25, 2016 Share Posted January 25, 2016 3rd gen H6s seem to be a good bet. Again, with used cars, the brand is less of an indicator of future reliability than the individual car's prior care and present condition. Shop carefully, and I'm sure you'd do OK - but getting the used, abused, uncared-for and overheated car is gonna be a bad idea. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subarubrat Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) Best durability and sentimental value = EA81 Displacement waiting to be exploited = SVX H6 Stupid HP cheap = Forrester XT/Baja Turbo/ STi block Jewel in the rough = ER27 (XT6 engine) Edited January 26, 2016 by subarubrat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureSubaru Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 (edited) from 1999-2009 I would call it marginal but only by Subaru standards. Good motors that go 100-150k and leak headgaskets externally. if not overheated or starved of oil, you do the head gaskets and drive it to 300k and beyond. They're only known as less reliable because they came in after the immortality of the EJ22s which phased out in 98/99. 05+ are pretty stout. We had an 06 LL Bean Outback sedan. Fun car! Loads of options, sporty styling, the EZ30 had crazy power compared to my 2000 outback and it's eventual replacement - a 2011 Outback. Edited January 26, 2016 by AdventureSubaru 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moss Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 02, Outback 2.5 B.. Smooth Motor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikec03 Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 So the 2010-2012 engines have finally made it back to the EJs in terms of reliability? On the 210-2012 outbacks, subaru finally went to the MLS head gasket. Unfortunately, there have been a few posts about HG leaks on these cars. So are they a good bet? Who knows, but I didn't want to take a chance. In any case, I went with a new 2014 FB subaru outback in hopes that the new engine and CVT trans are going to be reliable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdventureSubaru Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 FB motors are part of a class action lawsuit against Subaru for the oil consumption issue. I haven't heard details as to which exact years were involved. Your 2014 is a year removed I think. But the consensus so far for the new outbacks is that the 2010-2012s are best as the headgasket issues have not persisted (as a rule, certainly a few have had issues but it's seems that it is far from the norm) and to wait and see if the FBs eventually can match the reliability as they climb higher on the odometer. Apart from the oil consumption issue, there's only so much we know about the long term durability of the FB since they really haven't been around long enough to climb to 300k, 400k and 500k like the ej22s do all over the place. The 2010-2012 EJ25 has already routinely hit 300k and the owners are happy. Following that rule, we bought a 2011 for my wife. Can't comment on FB motors until they've had more time to prove themselves. MLS gaskets have been used since 96 or 97 with the troublesome EJ25 DOHC and have been used since. Each generation seemed to improve the design with the reliability finally on par with the early EJ22 beginning in 2010. But improvements were seen in 99/2000 and 2005 moving forward. All were good motors, but we all missed going over a quarter million miles before having to do headgaskets. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBARU3 Posted January 26, 2016 Author Share Posted January 26, 2016 It's kinda sad that Subaru cannot seem to replace the EJ22 reliability! It's like get the best Legacy/lowest mileage up to 1999 and then get the same thing in an EJ22.....do the plug and play swap and then keep it and be buried in it at some point!! LOL So consensus is that 2010-2012 is as close as I can get to a 1995 EJ22? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subnz Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 ps haven't rated SOHC EJ251 / EJ253 because of head gasket (and repeated head gasket) issues - otherwise would have been good if it wasn't for this.. the more recent ones are unproven yet ( haven't been around long enough yet) + oil consumption issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) FB engine with a look out on oil consumption issues. I like EZ30 and EZ36 engines but if you do get a headgasket issue on them they're a beast of a job. They are not the EJ22's you speak of in terms of reliability. Edited January 27, 2016 by grossgary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comatosellama Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) It's kinda sad that Subaru cannot seem to replace the EJ22 reliability! It's like get the best Legacy/lowest mileage up to 1999 and then get the same thing in an EJ22.....do the plug and play swap and then keep it and be buried in it at some point!! LOL So consensus is that 2010-2012 is as close as I can get to a 1995 EJ22? I doubt they want to make something that reliable again. Profit margins are the vehicles themselves are very thin, and most of an automakers money is from replacement parts and service. On top of that having engineers spend lots and lots of time trying to get an engine more reliable is more expensive to the company than having techs fix it after warranty runs out (which is when almost all of the expensive subaru repairs come in, timing belts, water pumps, ect.) The old subaru robustness seemed to go out the same time they started switching to the "subaru lifesyle/ love" marketing, (I think that was the same time phase 2 came out, along with a new head of SOA) and making the cars more pedestrian in looks, sound and drive-ability. But that's just conjecture, I wasn't alive then Edit: see below Edited January 27, 2016 by comatosellama 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 I've owned Subarus since my first 1986. Every newer version slips more toward trendy / style / etc. And away from solid reliable affordable. Sounds like the EJ22 was an accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carfreak85 Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Ahhh, the joys of youth and inexperience... I'm going to have to stop you there Comatosellama. I work for an OEM manufacturer (not Subaru), deep in the bowels of the Warranty and Service departments and you've got it all wrong. The profit margins ARE from selling vehicles. The markups aren't huge, maybe a few thousand dollars per vehicle, depending on the model, manufacturer, where the vehicle is built and sold. The goal is always to make the most reliable vehicle possible. Your product is your reputation. Where is Yugo? When you bring in your '99 Forester under warranty with blown head gaskets, guess who eats the bill for the parts and labor? It's not the customer or the repairing dealer, I can tell you that. Warranty work COSTS us money. We have to pay for the replacement parts, the tech's labor AND any markup for the dealer. Not cheap to do, I've presided over recalls that cost the company MILLIONS of dollars, just for one little issue. It doesn't cost more to engineer a better product, but there are many factors that you can't see or understand until you work in the industry. Turnaround times for projects are short. Engineers are human and make mistakes, overlook the obvious and are known to screw up once in a while. Unless you really know what you're saying is true, keep the conjecture off the web. You're just misinforming other folks who don't know any better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comatosellama Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Unless you really know what you're saying is true, keep the conjecture off the web. You're just misinforming other folks who don't know any better. Can't learn if you're never wrong. I still stand by the second point, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 coupla times in the past, Subaru was almost done for - and marketing is what saved them, not the 0.5% of the population wanting a quirky car. Whether or not they have totally caved in and given up on quality will always be open for debate (I doubt it) - but it's a poor business model to completely abandon it when you're always being tracked by JD Power, Consumers Union, Car & Driver, etc. You may not last long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comatosellama Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 (edited) coupla times in the past, Subaru was almost done for - and marketing is what saved them, not the 0.5% of the population wanting a quirky car. Whether or not they have totally caved in and given up on quality will always be open for debate (I doubt it) - but it's a poor business model to completely abandon it when you're always being tracked by JD Power, Consumers Union, Car & Driver, etc. You may not last long. All this new marketing definitely saved the company, since 01 their market share has gone up 2.6% (from a whole 1% in 01). And i'm not saying the new subarus are crap or anything, just I don't think they're quite as... rugged I guess? I'd rather take a ea81 way out there than a 2015 fb25 with a CVT. But just an opinion Edited January 27, 2016 by comatosellama 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosens Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 Yeah , the EA71 and EJ22 like the original poster said. The core of "Inexpensive and Built To Stay That Way". Cheers ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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