My '99 outback had the CEL come on, I took it to Autozone to have it read and it was the knock sensor. I took it to my mechanic and they quoted me a whopping $285: $85 labor, $125 part, $75 computer reset.

 

I didn't get it fixed there. $75 to reset the computer!?! really?

 

I went back to Autozone, bought a knock sensor for $46 and a 10" extension and put it on in 30 minutes. 200 miles and the light hasn't come back.

 

Those prices seem way steep- should I find another mechanic?

Yes!

Yes and Yes.

Yes that's steep. I generally distrust anyone else but if they're a good and otherwise honest mechanic with great skills and equipment it might be worth it. depends on your state and the area you live as well. where i live now that's really high, where i came from in the overinflated DC area prices are higher. dealers charge for code resets so can't fault the guy there. so while he is really high, sometimes that's not all bad. paying cheap jack leg around the corner shop to do shady work is no fun to deal with either.

 

Sometimes it's nice to post here "is this something I should try myself?" and let us guide you on difficulty and wether or not to pass.

 

If you're light comes back on it would only be because the angle or torque value isn't right since this does happen to have a specific installation procedure (all documented, pic's from FSM posted, on here). but most likely you'll never have a problem again.

Thanks for the advice everybody. I'll ask around for some other mechanic recommendations for future repairs. I'm in Baton Rouge, so I wouldn't think it should be inflated... unless they just don't like Subies.

 

I torqued it to the right setting, according to my manual... but it didn't say anything about angle. I just put it back (more or less) how it was.

 

Thanks

Andrew

I suggest you invest in a code reader or a scanner so you can check things yourself. The ECU doesn't really need to be reset when the knock sensor is working ok. It will turn off the CEL light itself when things are ok. I think the investment in a reader is well worth the cost of having a good one on hand. I have a couple made by Equus and really like them. If you purchase one you need to make sure it will handle the ISO 9141 protocol.

YES, big time gouge on your wallet from that shop. If it were me, I would never go back there again!

I would never go back there again!

 

or you can go and talk to the shop mgr. and explain that you don't mind paying a fair price for a job, but you won't stick around if he / they take advantage of you. then ask him if he wants the money you eventually spend on car repairs or should you look for another shop to spend your money. there is probably one in the next block and he knows it. if he acts like he did nothing wrong, move on.

 

you will still have to keep an eye on them, but that is true of any shop unless it is run by your mother. and with a resource like you have here, you can get a good idea of what is fair and reasonable.

 

anyone who has been in sales knows the temptation of charging a premium or over charging a customer. you can't always do it because you will lose out to lower priced sellers. but occasionally you can. but to keep a faithful customer, most will charge a fair price, especially if they know you are knowledgeable and checking.

wow some mechanics really gouge people these days. better yet, turn the mechanic in to BBB

 

good job on handling this yourself.

I was in Mein-lets rip you off-ikie last month. They get 100.00 per hour (typical around here) and 110.00! to scan and clear codes. For 5 freaking minutes of work.

 

Want to talk about a ripoff.

Labor is about right since normally it doesn't really matter what they are doing they will not charge fractional hours - so they are charging the 1 hour minimum.

 

The part cost is pretty typical - they are probably using an OEM knock sensor since they are prone to cracking and various years have been redesigned so figure they are doing a 100% markup on it (not unusual) for a real price of $62.50 - which is likely wholesale price of an OEM unit from the dealer.

 

The computer reset..... well unfortunately not all cars are equal and while some are easily reset, other's are not. So this may be a charge the shop has adopted to cover some of the messy systems other manufacturer's use and/or to offset the cost of the expensive equipment often required to do this sort of work. Not something I have run across before but I can see how it could come about these days.

 

All-in-all I don't think they were trying to rip you off at all - you are simply discovering the value of doing the work yourself. This stuff isn't cheap and it isn't cheap to run a shop. Even I am surprised at the size of the bill's I hand people for work I have performed - and I only charge $35 an hour and typically I don't markup parts unless I have to travel a bit to aquire them or have to pull them from a yard myself.

 

GD

I was in Mein-lets rip you off-ikie last month. They get 100.00 per hour (typical around here) and 110.00! to scan and clear codes. For 5 freaking minutes of work.

 

Want to talk about a ripoff.

 

Go to an auto parts store like Autozone or Advance, etc, and get the codes scanned and cleared at no cost!

sounds rather high to me - BUT - i live in a more rural area - small town living does have some advantages...

 

doesn't really matter what they are doing they will not charge fractional hours

 

This may be true in larger metro areas, but here in rural Wisconsin, well...

 

Just took my car in for a diagnostic inspection - had a shake in the steering wheel that I just couldnt figure out (ball joints, outer tierods & struts relatvely new with alignment right after)...local shop spent a 1/2 hour checking things over - test drive & on the lift - only charged me for said 1/2 hour - total bill was (i am almost afraid to admit this...) $26.00 - had I had the cash on me it would have been even cheaper!

 

turns out all i needed was to rotate my tires (they could stand to be re-balanced, too, when i have the time) The mechanic that did the inspection is pretty fussy about front end stuff and he was impressed with how tight everything was (i do 98% of my own work) he did point out a couple of minor issues for me, but no major problems (aside from massive oil leakage).

This may be true in larger metro areas, but here in rural Wisconsin, well...

 

Yes - the cost of running a business is much cheaper outside of the city.

 

It also pays to entice customers with a bit of helpful diagnostics or even a minor adjustment for free or very, very cheap. People remember that stuff and it creates an air of honesty and integrity. I do that quite a bit actually - keeps people comming back and softens the blow when I have to give them bad news in the future. We used to do that kind of thing all the time at the machinery shop I worked at - especially for customers that were frequent visitors - minor adjustments and even small repairs weren't charged if they came to the shop.

 

GD

Edited June 23, 201015 yr by GeneralDisorder

The price would not be that bad if it were not for that uncalled for 75.00 dollar fee to read the code. That should be included in a 1 hour labor fee.

My local stealership parts dept. wants $135 for a knock sensor for a 97 Legacy 2.5l!!! You can get it for ~$70 from some of the online places. I always try to get OEM stuff when I can. I can't believe ANYWHERE will charge to read an OBD-II code.. that is insane. You don't even have to bring the car in the shop. Just walk out there.. plug in the scanner.. "Here's what the code says." and your done. 2 minutes. Shops should do that as a good faith/courtesy gesture. It seems like they would be more likely to get your business if they didn't seem like they are ripping you off? Any place that tries to charge for that I just walk away right then and there.

I just replaced mine this morning in a parking lot. $70 OEM part online. 10 minutes. It's just one bolt. The code turned itself off... I dont think it needs to be cleared.

The code turned itself off... I dont think it needs to be cleared.

 

That has been my experience with them as well. From the sounds of it, this "shop" is not a Subaru specific one so they probably didn't know that when they quoted the job.

 

GD

You guys are correct about the code clearing. The ECU will turn off the CEL light for a bad knock sensor or circuit as soon as it detects a good signal from it. There are some things that will require several trips to reset the error code once a problem occurs but the knock sensor isn't one of them.

You guys are correct about the code clearing. The ECU will turn off the CEL light for a bad knock sensor or circuit as soon as it detects a good signal from it. There are some things that will require several trips to reset the error code once a problem occurs but the knock sensor isn't one of them.

 

Yes, that was my experience. I replaced my knock sensor, and the CEL reset itself, and has not come back on.

He wanted to charge $75 for hitting the clear code button? Just disconnect the - battery terminal for 10 minutes and it'll do the same. Sheesh!

You guys kill me. Show me one mechanic that works for free and I will show you a broke and hungry mechanic. Thousands and thousands of dollars worth of tools, training and overhead. How do you suppose he pays for all of that? By doing jobs for free?

How do you suppose he pays for all of that? By doing jobs for free?

 

Not this mechanic! I just try to offer a better deal than the other guys.

 

GD

Seems like a good compromise on this issue would be to learn all you can about your automobile. Try to do what you can, within your ability. Buy a reader/ scanner. Like another poster said about working for free......Do you work for free?

To add my two cents:

 

It sounds from the price you were quoted that the shop wasn't doing you any favors, but wasn't quite outrageous either.

 

Parts mark up is typically anywhere from 50-100 percent, sometime even more. IIRC, Bosch sensor is around $65+, so the parts price isn't too far off base (again, it's no bargain either). If you are in the position of having to warranty your work, buying sensors from Autozone may not be the best idea.

 

The "code reset" is the contentious issue. Many shops here in So Cal charge $100 diag. fee for any "check engine" light issue. Period. This is a sort of contingency, "cover you rump roast" fee. For every repair that is a simple matter of changing a part and being done with it, there is one where the problem is intermittent, where it turns out that the wiring is damaged, the PCM is bad, etc etc. and before you know it hours have been killed to diagnose a part that there is only a modest labor charge for replacing.

 

 

Knock sensors are impossible to "bench test" and conclusively diagnosing them in situ is also next to impossible, practically speaking. So all you can do is change the part and hope you didn't screw up. It's tough to run a business that way.

 

 

That said, I have been guilty of extreme cheapness on this issue...I walked into a local Subaru independent shop once and asked if he had a used sensor I could buy...the guy looked like he wanted to punch me in the face. Understandable perhaps.